Diamond Pythons

[rachel6695]

Hi Guys,
So if anyone could give me some advice on a diamond python it would be greatly appreciated.
I put a deposit on one today and now just waiting for DSE to send out the forms and stuff for a license. So I have read abit on DP Syndrome. My biggest fear is that my baby will get sick. What are the best ways to prevent this syndrome? Some people use vitamins to help, does this really work? If so what is the best way to give them these vitamins?
Me and my partner, Zicarus, have been reading up on pythons in general the last three months and we have also been reading up alot about specifically the Womas, Bredlis and Diamond Pythons. What would be best sized enclosure for a diamond? As Ive read they are arborial but a 4x2x2 "will do"...?
Regarding heat sources, some care sheets say ceramic globes, some say UVB, some say UV and heat mat/cord etc. Does this come down to personal preference? As I want them to be as comfortable as possible.
If anyone that has experience with a Diamond and has any additional information that will be beneficial for me and my snake please feel free to comment
Apologies if they are newbie question's lol




Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk 4 Beta

 

[Ramy]

I have some diamonds, and they're around 8-9 years old. I haven't bothered to supply nutrients, I don't tend to use UV light. I haven't had any health problems. I've heard all sorts of things about "DPS" and frankly I don't believe 95% of it. That said, according to the anecdotes, it's more likely to affect older animals (7+ years), it's worst after laying eggs (females struggling to put weight back on), and symptoms are made worse by heat or relieved with careful cooling. I have no personal experience with DPS, and I hope it stays that way.

If you want to provide vitamin D, calcium, etc then that's fine. I would recommend using a powder and putting it inside the mouth of the mouse/rat to be fed to it. If you want to provide UV light, that's fine too. I think that my pythons respond better to heat being turned on and off when they have UV. It might reinforce a day/night cycle for them?

Since you're getting a hatchling, you've got a little while where it'll feel safer in a small container. Also, I recommend a consistent heat (28-31) all day and plenty of room to move off the warm spot for the first 6-12 months. A heat rope or mat with a thermostat is fine when they're smaller, and often more convenient (also lower wattage). My adult pythons all have a timer so they don't get heat all day, but hatchies are more vulnerable to cold temperatures.

The main thing I've heard about DPS is that it's affected by heat. Diamond Pythons are from the Sydney-Illawarra basin, so they're used to colder weather than other carpet pythons. Hotter temperatures during the day, or insufficient cooling at night/in winter can make things worse. All of the heating/lighting for my diamonds is on a timer so they get a 6-8 hour day. In winter, I don't feed them for 3 months and they seem fine with the cold nights (it gets below 12 degrees often enough). I do keep a close eye on them to see if they're active and healthy when I cool them for winter because If any of them get sick in the cold I want to notice ASAP, but It hasn't happened yet.

Heat sources: Ceramic bulbs, spot lights, mats and ropes are all effective heating sources. It's up to you what you use. My male has a heat rope because I haven't managed to set up an overhead basking point, it's set to 30-31. The others have ceramic heat bulbs set to 29 degrees C near the basking point so that it can get a little hotter at the basking point. In either case, the cold end of the tank will get as cold as the temperatures gets in the room. Generally it's up to you what heating you use. I prefer ceramic globes/spotlights simply because it encourages the pythons to bask up in branches. Also, it's better at providing a thermal gradient than a rope/mat. You NEED to put a cage over any bulbs so the pythons don't get burnt or break the bulb. Ropes can be easier to work with, especially for "click-clacks". I find the easiest way to use a rope is to attach it to the underside of a tile (I just use gaffer's tape) with a thermostat probe on top, that way you don't accidentally introduce hot-spots. I have had a python burn itself when it managed to move the thermostat away from the rope.

Enclosure Size: a 4x2x2 (LxHxD) is what I use for my carpets, including diamonds. I wouldn't go smaller (though you don't need those exact dimensions). I have a coastal carpet in a 4x4x2 because she's longer but mostly because it's a nice looking enclosure. I like the extra height for climbing, but they can climb just fine in a 2 foot tall enclosure just give them branches or something. Get what suits you. NSW reptile licencing now comes with a code of practice which will be law soon, but even if you're not from NSW I consider it to be a reasonable guide to selecting enclosure sizes. (It lists sizes as an area, so you've gotta do the maths. Diamonds are climbers, so the area can be applied to either the backwall or floor space. You can completely ignore the section called "enclosure size calculations" that's just how they came to their figures).
Code of practice for the private keeping of reptiles | NSW Environment & Heritage

Quarantine is essential if you're getting more pythons or interacting with other reptiles. You should familiarise yourself with any other illnesses (such as respiratory infections or Mite infestations) just so you know what to look for. Do plenty of reading about pythons, there are plenty of good books out there on reptile husbandry. We don't mind giving advice on the forum here so long as people have atleast started their own research first.

Sorry about the essay. I hope that atleast some of this is hepful. There's a thread or two on the forums about DPS somewhere, I might see if I can dig up a link (to save you digging through the trash). Again, it's mostly anecdotal as there are no formal studies on it. No one really seems to know exactly what's going on.

 

[Ramy]

This is the best account of DPS I've read. I won't take it as word of god, but it's from someone with experience.

http://www.aussiepythons.com/forum/australian-snakes-37/experiences-dps-65233/

http://www.aussiepythons.com/forum/australian-snakes-37/experiences-dps-part-2-a-135920/

 

[Hamalicious]

It is widely agreed upon that DPS is caused by over heating your diamond python, causing the parathyroid gland to give up, meaning the bones don't receive any calcium and the problems get worse from their (broken bones, tumours, death ect.) It really is hard to give a definitive answer though because very little research has been done. While it does exist, i wouldn't say it is overly common. I really feel for the people who have to experience it though, it must be terrible to watch your pet deteriorate in front of your eyes.

You just have to remember that Diamonds are from a cold climate, that is why they have so much black pigment, meaning they absorb heat very easily. Diamonds in the wild will come out in the morning to bask for a few hours and then retreat for the rest of the day.

I try to replicate this with my Diamond. I give her a basking spot around 30 degrees for 4 hours in the morning. She comes up to bask and usually retreats to the lower/cooler areas of her enclosure before the heat even turns off and that keeps her going for the rest of the day and night.

I am assuming yours is a hatchling so i would recommend a decent size click-clack with a heat pad until it is around a year old, then move it into an appropriately sized enclosure (not too big) with a heat lamp and thermostat. Some people say UV lights are necessary but i don't believe this to be true (You're more than welcome to put one in if you want though)

Diamond pythons are very arboreal so a tall enclosure is best for them. I have my 7 year old in a 4' high, 2' wide and 2' deep enclosure.

I hope this helps, I'm sure you'll be great keepers because of all the research you're doing. Enjoy your snake and don't forget to post pics!

Hamish

 

[rachel6695]

I have some diamonds, and they're around 8-9 years old. I haven't bothered to supply nutrients, I don't tend to use UV light. I haven't had any health problems. I've heard all sorts of things about "DPS" and frankly I don't believe 95% of it. That said, according to the anecdotes, it's more likely to affect older animals (7+ years), it's worst after laying eggs (females struggling to put weight back on), and symptoms are made worse by heat or relieved with careful cooling. I have no personal experience with DPS, and I hope it stays that way.

If you want to provide vitamin D, calcium, etc then that's fine. I would recommend using a powder and putting it inside the mouth of the mouse/rat to be fed to it. If you want to provide UV light, that's fine too. I think that my pythons respond better to heat being turned on and off when they have UV. It might reinforce a day/night cycle for them?

Since you're getting a hatchling, you've got a little while where it'll feel safer in a small container. Also, I recommend a consistent heat (28-31) all day and plenty of room to move off the warm spot for the first 6-12 months. A heat rope or mat with a thermostat is fine when they're smaller, and often more convenient (also lower wattage). My adult pythons all have a timer so they don't get heat all day, but hatchies are more vulnerable to cold temperatures.

The main thing I've heard about DPS is that it's affected by heat. Diamond Pythons are from the Sydney-Illawarra basin, so they're used to colder weather than other carpet pythons. Hotter temperatures during the day, or insufficient cooling at night/in winter can make things worse. All of the heating/lighting for my diamonds is on a timer so they get a 6-8 hour day. In winter, I don't feed them for 3 months and they seem fine with the cold nights (it gets below 12 degrees often enough). I do keep a close eye on them to see if they're active and healthy when I cool them for winter because If any of them get sick in the cold I want to notice ASAP, but It hasn't happened yet.

Heat sources: Ceramic bulbs, spot lights, mats and ropes are all effective heating sources. It's up to you what you use. My male has a heat rope because I haven't managed to set up an overhead basking point, it's set to 30-31. The others have ceramic heat bulbs set to 29 degrees C near the basking point so that it can get a little hotter at the basking point. In either case, the cold end of the tank will get as cold as the temperatures gets in the room. Generally it's up to you what heating you use. I prefer ceramic globes/spotlights simply because it encourages the pythons to bask up in branches. Also, it's better at providing a thermal gradient than a rope/mat. You NEED to put a cage over any bulbs so the pythons don't get burnt or break the bulb. Ropes can be easier to work with, especially for "click-clacks". I find the easiest way to use a rope is to attach it to the underside of a tile (I just use gaffer's tape) with a thermostat probe on top, that way you don't accidentally introduce hot-spots. I have had a python burn itself when it managed to move the thermostat away from the rope.

Enclosure Size: a 4x2x2 (LxHxD) is what I use for my carpets, including diamonds. I wouldn't go smaller (though you don't need those exact dimensions). I have a coastal carpet in a 4x4x2 because she's longer but mostly because it's a nice looking enclosure. I like the extra height for climbing, but they can climb just fine in a 2 foot tall enclosure just give them branches or something. Get what suits you. NSW reptile licencing now comes with a code of practice which will be law soon, but even if you're not from NSW I consider it to be a reasonable guide to selecting enclosure sizes. (It lists sizes as an area, so you've gotta do the maths. Diamonds are climbers, so the area can be applied to either the backwall or floor space. You can completely ignore the section called "enclosure size calculations" that's just how they came to their figures).
Code of practice for the private keeping of reptiles | NSW Environment & Heritage

Quarantine is essential if you're getting more pythons or interacting with other reptiles. You should familiarise yourself with any other illnesses (such as respiratory infections or Mite infestations) just so you know what to look for. Do plenty of reading about pythons, there are plenty of good books out there on reptile husbandry. We don't mind giving advice on the forum here so long as people have atleast started their own research first.

Sorry about the essay. I hope that at least some of this is helpful. There's a thread or two on the forums about DPS somewhere, I might see if I can dig up a link (to save you digging through the trash). Again, it's mostly anecdotal as there are no formal studies on it. No one really seems to know exactly what's going on.

Sorry about the late reply, my phone has had problems with Tapatalk. Thank you for your response, regarding the vitamin D and calcium would it help them after breeding? Other then that I don't think it will be necessary as they get everything from there food. I know for adults they like the heat to be on for minimal time during the day (4-6 hrs or so) < just what I have researched is this the same with hatchlings or is it consistent heat throughout?
Wow without food for 3 months? How are they to handle? Are they rejecting the food? How low of a temp is too low for them in winter? In melb our nights get to well below 10... just the thought of that is scarey. My end goal for an enclosure is a 4x4x2 as they look amazing and it gives them plenty of room to climb and be comfortable. I am currently saving for an electronic thermostat that will control alot of the heat/humidity etc for the enclosure, we are aiming for the most realistic environment we can give them And I would never put two pythons in the same enclosure unless I was planning to breed them.

 

[rachel6695]

It is widely agreed upon that DPS is caused by over heating your diamond python, causing the parathyroid gland to give up, meaning the bones don't receive any calcium and the problems get worse from their (broken bones, tumours, death ect.) It really is hard to give a definitive answer though because very little research has been done. While it does exist, i wouldn't say it is overly common. I really feel for the people who have to experience it though, it must be terrible to watch your pet deteriorate in front of your eyes.

You just have to remember that Diamonds are from a cold climate, that is why they have so much black pigment, meaning they absorb heat very easily. Diamonds in the wild will come out in the morning to bask for a few hours and then retreat for the rest of the day.

I try to replicate this with my Diamond. I give her a basking spot around 30 degrees for 4 hours in the morning. She comes up to bask and usually retreats to the lower/cooler areas of her enclosure before the heat even turns off and that keeps her going for the rest of the day and night.

I am assuming yours is a hatchling so i would recommend a decent size click-clack with a heat pad until it is around a year old, then move it into an appropriately sized enclosure (not too big) with a heat lamp and thermostat. Some people say UV lights are necessary but i don't believe this to be true (You're more than welcome to put one in if you want though)

Diamond pythons are very arboreal so a tall enclosure is best for them. I have my 7 year old in a 4' high, 2' wide and 2' deep enclosure.

I hope this helps, I'm sure you'll be great keepers because of all the research you're doing. Enjoy your snake and don't forget to post pics!

Hamish

Thank you very much Hamalicious, what a compliment! I want to do the most research I can do before owning such a wonderful reptile, it would be good to know that everyone would do this before buying one! It has been hard to find out alot of information on DPS (hence the questions lol) but you guys have helped alot. I have decided that I will use a 4x2x2 and then a 4x4x2 when it grows

This is my little guy
View attachment 293945

Not the best photo but he was on the go!

 

[cement]

Sorry about the late reply, my phone has had problems with Tapatalk. Thank you for your response, regarding the vitamin D and calcium would it help them after breeding? No. Normal food items like rats and rabbits are all they need. Other then that I don't think it will be necessary as they get everything from there food. Exactly! I know for adults they like the heat to be on for minimal time during the day (4-6 hrs or so) < just what I have researched is this the same with hatchlings or is it consistent heat throughout the day? Is yours a juvenile or an adult?
Wow without food for 3 months?I have had an adult female go without food for almost 1 year. There were specific reasons and circumstances for why I did this to her, but she is in perfect health and went on to lay probably the largest known clutch of eggs by a diamond. How are they to handle?Diamonds are usually quite docile, it just depends on their individual temperament, temperature and age. Are they rejecting the food? How low of a temp is too low for them in winter?Diamonds are active and will hunt and eat at 20deg. If night time temps go much lower then 15deg give them an insulated and small hide box where they can curl up tight and retain their heat till the morning.They can handle colder but you need to know what you are doing and be aware of their needs ie provide longer basking at 35deg for recovery from very cold nights. In melb our nights get to well below 10... just the thought of that is scarey. Scary for a human, but not for a diamond with access to a basking site the next morning. My end goal for an enclosure is a 4x4x2 as they look amazing and it gives them plenty of room to climb and be comfortable. I am currently saving for an electronic thermostat that will control alot of the heat/humidity etc for the enclosure, we are aiming for the most realistic environment we can give them. Realism will only benefit you, if your temps aren't right, regardless of enclosure. And I would never put two pythons in the same enclosure unless I was planning to breed them.

I read and hear of a lot of misinformation regarding diamonds on these forums and in books written by "experts". Like Ramy (above post) I have no idea what DPS is, I have never seen it, or had a diamond fall victim to it....but I do a lot of work with wild diamonds and I base my keeping on what i see the wild diamonds do.
They are not difficult snakes to keep, they are not genetically weaker nor do they have some sort of inbuilt fault which makes them hard to maintain. This concept is majorly flawed. I find them very hardy snakes, that feed aggressively, breed well and make for very nice and docile pet.
The only difference between diamonds and any other python is their husbandry is slightly different. Why? Because they are adapted to a different type of climate.

 

[saintanger]

i keep a pair of diamonds, a 4ft enclosure is fine, the taller the better as they do love to climb.

i keep mine at 29 at hot end and 24-26 cool end. i do believe DPS is heat related. diamonds are pretty much the same as any other carpet python except they are from a cooler climate so they require a cooler temp.

i use a ceramic heat emitter connected to a thermostat. i do not use uv or uvb with my diamonds. i also do not use any calicium or multi vitamins.

only problem i have ever had with my diamonds is wen i first got my female she had an internal parasite that i was unaware of as its not visable, she then developed a respitory infection and did not respond to the antibiotics and sadly passed away shortly after i bought her. but my love for diamonds made me buy another female, only problem i used a wood chip type substrate bought from a pet shop that's specifically for snakes and she got some stuck in the back of her mouth and since she had her mouth shut and i was cooling her and she was off her food i did not notice till her mouth got swollen, though she is recovering well and the antibiotics are working well with her.

good luck with your new diamond, and good on you for doing your research before buying.

 

[Pitttownboy]

I've had diamonds for twenty yrs and I can say that while dps does exist if you keep older snakes outside then u won't have any probs as long as they have plenty of shade in summer and a basking area during winter. Mine will sometimes spend the whole day submerged in a large bath during summer and in winter I provide a basking lamp for the first 6 hrs of daylight, by removing the heat at lunchtime the snakes slither back to there hides, which are just big enough for one to curl up and be touching nearly all the sides meaning they are tightly wound and less likely to lose heat. I live in the hawkesbury where we get 44 degree summers and -4 degree winters none of mine have had issues relating to temps. I stop feeding around may and start again mid September when they warm up a little, I find there feeding response on warm summer nights is incredible and some females will take 4 adult rats in one go every two weeks. I have recently switched my carpets onto the same treatment

 

[Ramy]

My male broke his jaw at one point, and it was before winter so he went without food for around 6 months. I decided not to bother breaking his brumation early. He often rejects meals when I break their fast at the end of winter, as spring is associated with breeding season he just cares more about exploring. It is fairly normal for reptiles to eat less/not at all in the wild in winter. The cold temperatures mean their metabolism slows, and the actually stop producing the enzymes needed to digest. A sudden drop in temperature after a feed can cause complications for a python, cause they'll stop digesting during the cold spell (but this shouldn't happen in captivity unless you have a power failure for a few days).

If you're concerned about night time temperatures but want to have different temperatures at night/day, "microclimate" make a "magic eye" thermostat which detects light to set separate temperatures for day and night, though the highest you can set the night temperature to is 12.5 C. Alternatively, you could set up a secondary heat tile or something at 15 C and have a basking point that's hotter for the daytime.

Either way, when mine were hatchlings (first year) I had a heat rope set to 28 C all day, and they would move on and off the tile of their own accord.

 

[dangles]

Ramy the night temps on microclimate ME stats is the drop from daytime temps. Set it to 0 and it wont have a night time drop. Set it to 12.5 and its 12.5 degrees lower than dayrime temps.

 

[Ramy]

Sorry about the misinformation there. I haven't looked that closely at them, It was just a suggestion.

 

[cement]

I have also recorded with adult diamonds in my avairies that they only have a 6 month feeding period anyway, which also coincides with my experience with wild ones. Where I have had to maintain adult wild diamonds in care for long periods I have found that they prefer to eat large meals (ie BIG rats or many smaller ones, or rabbits) once a month or so over frequently offered small feeds. Usually, the wild ones I find that have just eaten, have eaten such a big item that they are incapacitated and have a lot of trouble moving.
I have heard from a friend about a diamond that killed a small species of wallaby at a local wildlife park, but gave up on eating it because it was too big!
I know of large adult females taking rabbits, adult possums (both ringys and brushies), and chooks.
This photo shows a food item the size of an adult ringtailed possum

 

[Pitttownboy]

My first wild caught diamond came out of its hole in the roof ate a brush tail possum and couldn't get back into the hole so was frying on the roof in the middle of summer I owned that snake for nine yrs and it ate very infrequently but always ate heaps when it did just like you've mentionedCEMENT