Do you believe in macroevolution?

[slim6y]

Hang on a sec there.... I teach science... Are you telling me I'm part of the brainwashing society that isn't the 'church'?

Don't you think churches brainwash our kids of the day in far worse fashion?

I teach just as many morals (if not more), open mindedness and above all scientific technique to analyse situations.

I NEVER (and I mean NEVER) just teach out of a text book - we do equations in physics out of a text book, we do some chemistry in a text book... Blah blah... But the stuff that is just 'theory' is absolute RUBBISH.

I've never misinterpret something like the photoelectric effect. I've never manipulated facts such as free falling and terminal velocity, but above all - I teach stuff that CAN and IS and HAS BEEN proved time and time again.

For example, I am currently teaching projectile motion to my year 12s (11 in Australia) - not only did I show theory, we do it for REAL in the class (limited wind resistance) and we get within 1% of the theoretical amounts for shooting darts across the room.

So - tell me, how am I brainwashing these kids again?

I'm meant to be in the hall now for a seminar with our younger cohort - but I am sure they're just being brainwashed too....

And BTW - the spin on earth is slowing - at one stage we had 23 hour days... Imagine that??? I'd say far from precision...

The Japanese earthquake and resulting Tsunami (of course caused by god to wipe out the infidels - ho also tried the same in a city aptly named Christchurch) slowed the earth considerably that day - the earth did pick back up again.

We gained a wobble on Boxing Day in 2004... Amazing really - think about - spinning perfectly and perfectly created is all an imaginary thing... Evolution is NOT imaginary and is proven time and time again.

 

[waruikazi]

Somewhere along the line you need to make a choice on what you stand for and believe in....I guess you believe you are your own God...as long as you can get through life and our laws alright everything will be sweet...

That doesn't answer my question. What will happen to you if you are wrong?

Don't make the question about me. For one you don't know my beleifs and two, what will happen to me isn't the question.

 

[junglepython2]

Somewhere along the line you need to make a choice on what you stand for and believe in....I guess you believe you are your own God...as long as you can get through life and our laws alright everything will be sweet...


That's why you need to study the Bible, not just read a part here and there. It takes thorough reading and meticulous study to begin to fathom what the Bible is saying. It's not just the obvious text but there are so many different levels beyond that. Been studying it for about 6 years now and I know very little....keep plugging away...
Realistically the scientists (or so claimed ) people on here have their own religion...they are still believing most of their theology on faith, on what the scientists have said...because most people do not really know any of this scientific fact first hand they are just believing what they say...not so different from religion really. Main difference is with science they are their own Gods and have only accountability to themselves in confines of what's accepted in our society.

JPN there are many well respected religious scientists, religion and science are not mutually exclusive. You don't have to give up one for the other. Although you do have to question the literal interpretation of the bible which by the way was written, translated and copied by man, not God himself.

 

[Australis]

The irony of all this belief is that from all the wars of recent time, none of them seemed to be against scientific beliefs.

From my perspective the below comic is a sad reality... the most militant act an atheist commits is being open about their belief (really disbelief).

Currently there is a person (in Asia) potentially facing the death penalty for posting on Facebook his disbelief. He was already seriously assaulted shortly after posting on facebook, and now might be killed for it? what a world we live in.

JustPlainNuts (Poe's law anyone?)..

Try to remember you also disbelieve in gods, just like myself. However i disbelief in merely one more god than you do, just the one more.

Im happy to admit i have not dedicated any real time to studying "the bible" of course the question is why would i even come to the point of considering it over the hundreds (if not thousands) of other religions and or religious writings.

Maybe ask yourself why you ended up with it, of all the possible options... why narrow it down to this one, and one only to pursue. If you ( or i for that matter) just so happen to be born in Australia a few hundred years ago we very well might believe Echidnas were "created" when a man was punished with spears to his back. Australian Aboriginal belief systems predate Judao-christian beliefs by tens of thousands of years...sadly a point that defies contemplation for you because of the young earth world view you must hold on to.

Imagine if you were wrong, and the chances of you being wrong are extremely high, given all the other options of religion you have. Imagine if a heaven and hell did exist.. and the deciding factor for acceptance to into heaven was critical thinking in this life and the legitimate search of truths and banishment to hell was for intellectual dishonesty and pseudo science... well you would be doomed.


I cant be bothered arguing absolute morality... but being a gott fearing christian doesn't make you a better person than an atheist. Everyone can live by the golden rule "do to other what you would want done to you" or something of this nature.
When i walk down the street and see a little old lady has fallen down, i would help her... not because if wish for a reward in some afterlife, or fear punishment in a hell.
I do it because of empathy for my fellow human, for self pressure i receive from doing something kind.

argh.. and finally something like less than 2% of American prison inmates are atheists. If disbelief was such a materialistic and lacking in moral fortitude lifestyle, one would expect a higher representation in the prison system.

 

[slim6y]

understandable so to, there is not just one religion, and this is in the bible, the fall of babalon for one, Genesis 11:1-9, when the people are torn apart, science wont cause wars, have a look at the schools for one, the teachers teach the kids science and they naturally believe what there being told, doest mean its correct, realistically science teachers teach mostly just text book theorys, which like anything is open to interpretation and manipulation. nothing against you slim6y for supposedly being a teacher.
Boa, "absolutely zero proof" mate open your eyes, have a look at some of the awsome things around you, science can not prove that all this has come to light from cell re production, have a look at earth for one, and the way it orbits and its precision, one degree out and we are all cooked. no magic, no machinery, just spinning perfectly, orbiting perfectly.

Where did you go to school?

For one - Capital letters start a sentence. Capital letters also are used for proper nouns - Babylon is spelt with a Y and a capital B.

Look - clearly you weren't one of the ones brainwashed by science... But English.... You can't dispute English.

I'm not doubting your beliefs at all - they're yours. But don't for one second ever believe that science is about brainwashing. Unlike religion which is all about control.

I'm really frustrated that people like you could actually exist in a society that has shown over and over and over again that science isn't the evil one on Earth. Some of the things we do with Science is a bit evil... Sometimes science is used for the wrong thing.

But look at Alfred Nobel... What did he invent? Now look at what goes on with that Swedish scientist.

How is what he did 'brainwashing'?

I just don't understand (or are you trolling) that you'd consider school science as a brainwashing institute?

If we still believed what god wanted us to believe the sun would revolve around the Earth and the Earth would be the centre of the universe.

Do you still believe that dinosaurs ran around with humans some 6,000 years ago?

Do you believe that fossilised remains buried under millions of years of evidence... Layers of rock...

Do you believe in magnetism?

Or do I brainwash kids about that too?

Do you know we don't really understand everything - and that's something I do tell my students. Gravity.... Magnetism... Many things in Physics are difficult to explain.

Do you know one of the reasons we're so far behind from explaining some of this stuff....?

Give you a game of hang man.... Two words...

_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _

or...

_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _

Without those two things people like Galileo would have lived in fear of suggesting the Earth rotates around the sun and that we weren't the centre of the universe.

The universe isn't filled with the 'ether'. In fact, the universe is barely filled!

JPN there are many well respected religious scientists, religion and science are not mutually exclusive. You don't have to give up one for the other. Although you do have to question the literal interpretation of the bible which by the way was written, translated and copied by man, not God himself.

Newton was well known to be very religious.... So was Galileo (very different outcomes though).

 

[snakerelocation]

Where did you go to school?

For one - Capital letters start a sentence. Capital letters also are used for proper nouns - Babylon is spelt with a Y and a capital B.

Look - clearly you weren't one of the ones brainwashed by science... But English.... You can't dispute English.

I'm not doubting your beliefs at all - they're yours. But don't for one second ever believe that science is about brainwashing. Unlike religion which is all about control.

I'm really frustrated that people like you could actually exist in a society that has shown over and over and over again that science isn't the evil one on Earth. Some of the things we do with Science is a bit evil... Sometimes science is used for the wrong thing.

But look at Alfred Nobel... What did he invent? Now look at what goes on with that Swedish scientist.

How is what he did 'brainwashing'?

I just don't understand (or are you trolling) that you'd consider school science as a brainwashing institute?

If we still believed what god wanted us to believe the sun would revolve around the Earth and the Earth would be the centre of the universe.

Do you still believe that dinosaurs ran around with humans some 6,000 years ago?

Do you believe that fossilised remains buried under millions of years of evidence... Layers of rock...

Do you believe in magnetism?

Or do I brainwash kids about that too?

Do you know we don't really understand everything - and that's something I do tell my students. Gravity.... Magnetism... Many things in Physics are difficult to explain.

Do you know one of the reasons we're so far behind from explaining some of this stuff....?

Give you a game of hang man.... Two words...

_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _

or...

_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _

Without those two things people like Galileo would have lived in fear of suggesting the Earth rotates around the sun and that we weren't the centre of the universe.

The universe isn't filled with the 'ether'. In fact, the universe is barely filled!



Newton was well known to be very religious.... So was Galileo (very different outcomes though).

see you think you have the right to bag religion, and yet when the tide turns you become so defensive and ticked, oh i do believe in science, and do believe it does the world of good, but your not always right, and neither am i, so dont make out you are, yes i was trolling because it ****s me to a tee when i see a frigin no it all, that simply doesnt.

 

[Snakewoman]

have a look at earth for one, and the way it orbits and its precision, one degree out and we are all cooked.

What do you mean by one degree out? Do you mean temperature or position to the sun?

If a body (like the Earth) is orbiting around the Sun, we say it is closest to the Sun at perihelion and farthest from the Sun at aphelion. In 2000,perihelion for the Earth was on January 3, 2000, and aphelion was on July 4, 2000. The Earth was 91,405,436 miles from Sun at perihelion and 94,511,989 miles from Sun at aphelion.

Earth Numbers - perihelion, aphelion? At what month is the Earth closest to the Sun? circumference? How fast is the Earth moving about its axis; how about around the Sun?

 

[slim6y]

see you think you have the right to bag religion, and yet when the tide turns you become so defensive and ticked, oh i do believe in science, and do believe it does the world of good, but your not always right, and neither am i, so dont make out you are, yes i was trolling because it ****s me to a tee when i see a frigin no it all, that simply doesnt.

Do I know it all?

Do I know nothing?

Do I know something about nothing?

Or nothing about something?

Do I claim to know something of nothing or everything of something?

Hmmmm.... I claim evidence is biased in the favour of science and yep... I have heavily weighted my beliefs on that bias....

see you think you have the right to bag religion, and yet when the tide turns you become so defensive and ticked, oh i do believe in science, and do believe it does the world of good, but your not always right, and neither am i, so dont make out you are, yes i was trolling because it ****s me to a tee when i see a frigin no it all, that simply doesnt.

I've never bagged out religion I might add - but you've got your faith - I can't follow a faith that believed in wars because people blieved in different things - ie the Crusades.

How it slowed our advancement as a scientific world. How it segregated our people and divided nations.

Right now - macro/micro evolution is the topic - it brought up creationism, it got argumentative for a few strongly religious people. Where it appears, you'd go to war to make people believe.

Me - on the other hand, could care less what you believe - what bugs me, is the narrow minded 'believe in ghosts' attitude that continues to spread from the church about things like evolution.

How can the people believe that the Earth is 6,000 years old? Really... What evidence exists that shows this is the case?

What evidence is there that proves we're from just 8 people?

What evidence is there that suggests we didn't originate out of Africa and that we formed (sprung up bing!) from Adam and Eve, then wiped out everyone, then rejoined with Noah and his ark.

Let's look at ALL animals on Earth right now... They all came from ONE pair of animals? Is this correct?

They were then redistributed to lands (such as Australia) where they went on happily to enjoy their lives until they became extinct like the Tasmanian Tiger...

Just how can you believe this stuff - that's what I am bagging - not bagging religion at all!

 

[Australis]

yes i was trolling .

Every post ?

Please tell the excruciatingly ignorant human gestation angle you tried was trolling

 

[waruikazi]

Point of literary contention here Slim6y. Evidence is what you base your opinions on, not beleifs. Opinions require some kind of evidence, whereas beleifs require little more than superstition.

 

[snakerelocation]

"I've never bagged out religion I might add - but you've got your faith - I can't follow a faith that believed in wars because people blieved in different things - ie the Crusades."

no i guess you never once bagged the bible for being full of it.
My faith doesnt believe in wars, the wars happen not because of a religion, but because people carnt accept that other people follow different beliefs, and like yourself get aggresive about it. I on the other hand do not give to hoots about what you believe, or any one else for that matter. The Bible states quite clearly that we have been given a choice to choose, and basically that goes against door knockers and the like. religious wars are not following that are they, so they are man created, not from God,

"What evidence is there that proves we're from just 8 people? " - what evidence is there to say we are not? evolution is not evidence, just an plausible option. Look at the way Australia started, that wasnt that long ago, and we originated from a small ship full of people.

 

[waruikazi]

"i've never bagged out religion i might add - but you've got your faith - i can't follow a faith that believed in wars because people blieved in different things - ie the crusades."

no i guess you never once bagged the bible for being full of it.
My faith doesnt believe in wars, the wars happen not because of a religion, but because people carnt accept that other people follow different beliefs, and like yourself get aggresive about it. I on the other hand do not give to hoots about what you believe, or any one else for that matter. The bible states quite clearly that we have been given a choice to choose, and basically that goes against door knockers and the like. Religious wars are not following that are they, so they are man created, not from god,

"what evidence is there that proves we're from just 8 people? " - what evidence is there to say we are not? Evolution is not evidence, just an plausible option. Look at the way australia started, that wasnt that long ago, and we originated from a small ship full of people.

hahahahahahaha!

 

[slim6y]

Whammo.... I've just read something about Noah's Ark that MUST (surely) back up evolution...

Could Noah's Ark really hold all the animals that were supposed to be preserved from Flood? • ChristianAnswers.Net (have a good read) - could Noah's Ark really be big enough...

Now... This is where it gets interesting. Noah only required to take on board 35,000 animals according to Could Noah's Ark really hold all the animals that were supposed to be preserved from Flood? • ChristianAnswers.Net

That is merely 17,500 pairs - right (the 35,000 is individual animals).

So - EACH of these pairs went fourth and spawned, reproduced, did what they needed to do.

Unfortunately many tree species, grasses, fungi etc were unable to survive. The remaining trees, fungi and grasses we see today are either fully evolved (eg cactuses only had 6,000 years to be able to adapt to dry conditions) or they survived the flood.

Well, let's forget that... Let's keep on with animals....

17,500 pairs.

Let's start with snakes....

(BTW - the site continues to suggest that we should allow 50,000 animals = 25,000 pairs)

I'm going to use Wiki - and you can be anti this all you like, but we'll start with this as a reference:

Snake - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Go down about a quarter of the page to the TABLE = FAMILIES:

Note... There's about 2,700 (give or take) species of snake... As far as I am aware - these are individual species, I'm not sure how genetically any of these could be viable mates - but that's just SNAKES! Snakes couldn't have survived otherwise....

Except maybe sea and water snakes - so that takes out a few...

Now... I'm going to stop at snakes, just because right now you can tell you'll need more than 50,000 animals (25,000 pairs) if I started going through all other family groups that would have required the ark. You can research all other families of animals that must have been required to populate the earth with current populations.

Otherwise - what you'll find, if Noah and family took just ONE pair of snakes from EACH family, then they have EVOLVED in 6,000 years to the modern snake we see and keep as our hobby now!

Pythons came from just TWO pythons. Scrubbies, spotteds, coastals, etc etc -

Elapids all came from just TWO elapids - taipans, red bellies etc etc....

Colubrids of course, just two colubrids made ALL our current colubrids... Tell that to a BTS and GTS and a Maclealy's....

So two colubrids make: 1938 species from just over 300 genera....

Is it really possible???

 

[Snakewoman]

snakerelocation:

I would like to see you construct an argument that isn't based on fallacies. So far that's about all I've seen in your posts. Here's a site that explains what different fallacies are and gives examples:

Educational Assets | Young Australian Skeptics

 

[waruikazi]

Lol you intelectual lightweight Slim6y, Macleay's are Homalopsids not Colubrids!

 

[slim6y]

Dinosaurs:

"The Ark was a very large ship designed especially by God for its important purpose. It was so large and complex that it took Noah 120 years to build. Noah used this time to warn people about the Flood and convince them to turn to God and be saved with his family."

Did Noah take dinosaurs on the Ark? (Part 1) (The Great Dinosaur Mystery™ and the Bible) - ChristianAnswers.Net

"There is evidence that dinosaurs lived after the Flood. For instance, Job saw “behemoth” after the Flood. (Other evidences will be discussed later.)"

BRILLIANT!!!!

6,000 years ago Dinosaurs walked the Earth, for some of that time they MUST have been on the ark too... They were then wiped out!

It's no long fairytale - it's now bordering on hallucinogenic prophecies... Surely, if someone had enough faith to believe this, they are already too far gone to believe anything scientific!

 

[snakerelocation]

Dinosaurs:

"The Ark was a very large ship designed especially by God for its important purpose. It was so large and complex that it took Noah 120 years to build. Noah used this time to warn people about the Flood and convince them to turn to God and be saved with his family."

Did Noah take dinosaurs on the Ark? (Part 1) (The Great Dinosaur Mystery™ and the Bible) - ChristianAnswers.Net

"There is evidence that dinosaurs lived after the Flood. For instance, Job saw “behemoth” after the Flood. (Other evidences will be discussed later.)"

BRILLIANT!!!!

6,000 years ago Dinosaurs walked the Earth, for some of that time they MUST have been on the ark too... They were then wiped out!

It's no long fairytale - it's now bordering on hallucinogenic prophecies... Surely, if someone had enough faith to believe this, they are already too far gone to believe anything scientific!

And yes your not bagging religion, dont you have any science classes today....

 

[slim6y]

And yes your not bagging religion, dont you have any science classes today....

I'm NOT bagging... I said it was BRILLIANT!!!

Then I said that it was bordering on hallucinogenic prophecies - well, surely no human could have come up with stories like that without the aid of some drug? Did you know the first bibles were made from cannabis?

Anyway... Bagging aside...

No... I don't have science classes today, it's been a day where students have been in seminars about, ironically, Free Choice... The choice to say NO!!! About drugs, smoking, alcohol, etc etc...

I did teach agricultural science this morning - we looked at topography and climate. But now I am considering to see what their point of view is on the 'Ark' and whether they believe the sheep, cows, horses, goats, pigs, crops etc etc we currently have all could have come from the 'Ark'.

Then this afternoon it's SPORTS time! I'm on high jump today... Last week we got rained out so we had to move to today!

Is this ok with you?

So, while I am with my children of the Ark can you please elucidate on how species we currently have (6,000 years after the flood) did NOT evolve?

Can you also please elucidate (you may use wiki if you want) how dinosaurs were also included on the ark - we need to assume that they came from all the periods of dinosaurs that we currently believe occurred.

I'm happy for you to now just say - no, the Ark is just a story to help people understand right from wrong... good from evil... Or, I'd like you to at least give us the evidence you believe is lacking from evolution theory.... (so called theory for your benefit).

Also, if you were to ever become a science teacher - how will you teach evolution (noting it's actually a topic in year 13 biology in NZ and also in Australian curriculum too)?

Evolution is actually a topic in Year 13 Biology - we actually TEACH it at school - how does that make you feel? Would you teach it knowing it's in the Curriculum? Or would you teach creationism knowing it is not?

 

[saratoga]

I've never read so much crap!

Only 35,000 species taken on board the ark. One of the references says that one set of every kind of air-breathing animal was on board.

There are well in excess of 350,000 different types of beetles, and I believe all are airbreathing?

 

[Australis]

(you may use wiki if you want)

You might have to be more specific for the kid as "they" have their own wikis now.. just like creation museums... instead of real ones.