For all you snakesperts...

[starr9]

Oh man thats not cool! Sorry to here that! :?

 

[Waterrat]

Carolyn, that's really pity that you took my comments that way. First of all, I DID SAY I am not criticising anyone, that comment was general to anybody who cares to listen. My opinion on vets performing probing is my opinion and such is based on few experiences where the vet wouldn't admit he/she hasn't got a clue how to do it because he/she would have lost a customer (and money). Lastly, no one should be "gob-smacked" about such mistake because we all make such mistakes from time to time (including myself of course).

I can assure you, my "high horse" is more like a miniature pony ....... thanks for that remark!

 

[CharliePython]

do all males shed with sperm plugs all of the time?

 

[patonthego]

Yes I'd like to know that one too!! I have a murray which I was told was male and now I am wondering. Just a novice and would never try to probe and don't even understand the "subcaudel scales thing'??

 

[snakehandler]

Carolyn, I have had "experts" sex a number of my animals and got it wrong, vets included, it happens! Here in Melbourne however there are a number of vets who I do trust in getting these things right. First and foremost is Shane Simpson at Karingal Vet Hospital, he is local to me and has been 100% accurate, Tristan Rich at Lort Smith is also excellent and Brendan Carmel at Warrenwood Vet Clinc. There may be others as well, however I have personal experience with all three of these guys and highly recommend them. I usually sex my own animals, however if I am unsure will get a second opinion always. One expert that taught me probing said to me that unless he sees the hemipenes then he is 50% sure that he is right, he also showed me popping, which he personally found more accurate! He usually dies both techniques to confirm his decision!


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- Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[solar 17]

A point that hasn't been raised here are those snakes that probe mid-range 6-7 scales deep anyone that is confident on that probing has lost me and that imo is where secondary "signs" help, spur size can be one, and a distinct taper (for females) behind the cloaca and a hemi-penal bulge (for males) is another and lastly with the ball of your thumb pad on the lower quarter of the snakes body behind the cloaca it is quite firm for a female but soft for a male and this test takes virtually no pressure.
..........solar 17 (Baden)

 

[snakeluvver]

do all males shed with sperm plugs all of the time?

Sometimes they're not visible on the shed

 

[Waterrat]

Sometimes they're not visible on the shed

They are always visible if they are there, which is not every time.

You're right Baden, probing is not always a clear cut. When the probe doesn't go far enough as it should in males, people often declare the snake a female. When uncertain, it's always good idea to probe again after slough and do both sides. JMO

 

[snakeluvver]

They are always visible if they are there, which is not every time.

Yeah thats what I meant, you only see them intact on the skin sometimes.

 

[Schnecke]

he also showed me popping, which he personally found more accurate! He usually dies both techniques to confirm his decision!

I've seen a few youtube videos on "popping" and am confident of using this technique myself, but I have seen many people saying that it is too dangerous to do and shouldn't be done on older juvie's (ours are 7 and 8 months)

I personally didn't think it looked dangerous and watched it done on both males and females, adults, yearlings and hatchlings.

Is it REALLY something that shouldn't be done, or is that just something more knowledgable people say to us noobs to scare us into not trying it for fear that we will cause injury to our snakes (and I don't blame people for taking this approach, safety first for the snakes naturally) but I'm just trying to clarify as there is so much conflicting information out there.

I would think that internal probing would have a higher risk of injury than popping would. It looks like a very simple, effective process.

Can someone please clarify? Cheers.

 

[waruikazi]

Was probed at 11months of age by this "expert" (who shall remain nameless, but is well known in the industry), until I saw this (watched the whole thing) earlier today, I wouldn't have thought anything of it. Probed the animal myself and went to 9 subcaudal scales and could've gone further...

To be honest, I believe "her" to be a male (now), and feel quite sick about it... Average 20 eggs per clutch, over six years I've had this animal... you do the sums!

If it was that important to you as an investment, then you should have got a second opinion. Especially after the first breeding season.

 

[pythonmum]

The vet who does my probing says that the only 100% indications are successful breeding or finding sperm in a faecal smear when the snake has not been paired up. He has been quite accurate so far, but mistakes happen. At least I am sure about my breeders!

 

[Waterrat]

The vet who does my probing says that the only 100% indications are successful breeding or finding sperm in a faecal smear when the snake has not been paired up.

It always worries me when people, including vets make sweeping statements like that. So how does this vet's opinion and methodology going to help someone wanting to sex an immature snake?

 

[Jeffa]

Its a male!

Next.

 

[pythonmum]

Waterrat - the vet is admitting that 100% is not always reasonable. He probes my hatchlings and is very experienced and highly regarded. However, he also admits that there are occasional females that probe deeply or animals that may probe intermediate. He gives a 99% proabability on those that probe cleanly and clearly on both sides at the same depth. If different depths, he will not give the same probability and will recommend probing again after a slough, etc.

 

[cement]

Can someone tell me what sex to call a snake that after multiple probes it always comes up 7? Morelia

 

[Schnecke]

We got a vet probe of 7 on the Bredli and was told Male but only 70% sure, thats why i'm interested in "popping" as an option.

 

[Grogshla]

sorry to hear

 

[Gecko :)]

Sorry to hear this Carolyn,.

I understand people make mistakes but doesnt make it any less frustrating or annoying.
Especially after keeping the animal for so long!

We have had this happen on several occasions & in some cases with some top dollar snakes, which is extremely inconvenient!

The annoying part is we have had it happen a few times from the same breeder, he too is recognised as a well known breeder,.
As I said I know ppl can make mistakes, but how many times? made me wonder if they are just trying to slow you down in your own breeding venture,. or maybe I am just paranoid & unlucky,. either way it is a pain in the butt.

So I guess you are now on the look out for a nice Female Murray Darling?

I am also interested to learn more about popping,. I too have heard it can be tricky & dangerous,. how many people use this method?

 

[Elapidae1]

I popped a dead snake with some difficulty and thought to myself that I could do some damage should a live snake start tensing muscles etc. Also if it didn't pop I would be left with the question, have I done it wrong? I would never be sure.

As for your snake LizardLady, bit of a bummer. But if the animal was sold and bought in good faith it's just tough luck.