Former Nrl Star Arrested Over Wildlife Smuggling Ring

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nick_75 said:
I don't see a problem with these fad animals not ending up plastered all over this site for big dollars.
One less hatchling factory.
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Oh they wouldn't be plastered for a long time and the price they'd be fetching and waiting lists lol.
I mean... Do you see regular rbbs plastered anywhere despite them being HIGHLY sought after? Every time I used to post a photo of mine someone would be offering to buy it, I was only lucky enough to own her due to another kind keeper in the know (thanks IV!) or else getting in is pretty hard .

And the pythons disappearing just means something else will come up to replace them, so doesn't solve your problem.


At the very least it'd be sad for the innocent animals to be euthanized due to someone else's bad decisions.

Unless your animals came from a wild catch permit (or you're in Tas), your animals are from a "hatchling factory". And if they are from the wild, that in itself is another ethical dilemma.
 
vampstorso said:
Oh they wouldn't be plastered for a long time and the price they'd be fetching and waiting lists lol.
I mean... Do you see regular rbbs plastered anywhere despite them being HIGHLY sought after? Every time I used to post a photo of mine someone would be offering to buy it, I was only lucky enough to own her due to another kind keeper in the know (thanks IV!) or else getting in is pretty hard .

And the pythons disappearing just means something else will come up to replace them, so doesn't solve your problem.


At the very least it'd be sad for the innocent animals to be euthanized due to someone else's bad decisions.

Unless your animals came from a wild catch permit (or you're in Tas), your animals are from a "hatchling factory". And if they are from the wild, that in itself is another ethical dilemma.
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My comment was not directed at a specific species. The comment was directed towards new colour morphs that take the internet by storm, have very high cost and are very popular with the people who must have the new, cool thing in their collection. And then phase out in popularity when the next new, cool thing takes over.

I disagree that my animals have come from a hatchling factory. My animals are from private breeders with a low animal density. They do not breed all of their animals every year and the breeding adults are kept as pets in large enclosures not small tubs to maximize space to fit in more breeding stock.
All of my animals are wild type specimens, I do not keep morphs. Many people would think that my non het, melanistic, albino etc animals are boring. I think that they are perfect.
 
Even the morphs had to come from somewhere. The genetics all come from wild caught animals & line breeding.
Without private breeders reptile enthusiasts would still be getting their animals from the wild. The hatchling factories you refer to satisfy the need of the people who aspire to get into the hobby. If you go back 30+ years I would guess 90% of available animals were wild caught and transported around the world in very poor condition. The reptile trade in many countries is still rife with wild colony's of animals on the verge of total destruction due to mans desire to own anything that is beautiful & expensive.
I don't want to take the thread off track as it is about a local smuggling not morphs. Smuggling is obviosly still a problem but is keeping native animals off licence any less of a crime?

(I'm probably one of those factories you refer too though I keep less animals than many who don't even breed or have no desire to breed their animals).
 
nick_75 said:
All of my animals are wild type specimens, I do not keep morphs. Many people would think that my non het, melanistic, albino etc animals are boring. I think that they are perfect.
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I agree with this wholeheartedly. I love wild types, but I also do love some morphs as well. But as Pauls_Pythons says it's a good thing that reptiles are being established in captivity and breeding freely, even if they are "hatchling factories". It relieves the demand on the taking of wild reptiles. Here in Western Australia many species or locales are particularly hard to come by or are simply non-existent in collections, and wild taking can be common. While there's always a plus to knowing the exact origins of your animal if it's wild caught, it can also pose as a negative.

Depending on the species, or the individual's personality, wild caught reptiles can be extremely difficult to care for. Not to mention there's the ethical issue of removing an animal from the wild that once knew unlimited space and freedom and then placing it in an enclosure of a bare fraction of what it once knew. It's particularly disheartening for animals that are used to roaming large, extensive territories that can be kilometres, and then watching them chafe at the confines of a box that's only a few metres wide. Captive bred reptiles don't appear to know any better though. Also, many wild reptiles fail to establish in captivity, despite a keeper's best efforts. They either perish or fail to breed, and this benefits no one, not keepers, nor wild populations. Some wild reptiles adapt to life in captivity. They'll feed, survive, and possibly breed. But again, depending on the animal, they'll always know that they're being confined. I would prefer "hatchling factories" over the constant demand of taking wild animals. And I'm ashamed to say that my demand for a particular animal/locale supports wild taking. Fortunately in Western Australia, it only happens on a relatively small scale compared to overseas where wild taking happens on a much larger scale.
 
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Ive asked this question before but what defines a morph? A colour or pattern alteration 1st observed in captivity? That seems to be the only difference with albinos 1 or 2 were found in the wild 1st and they are classed as wildtype? Mutations can and do appear in the wild take scaleless ratsnakes.. i dare say a scaleless CP would be deemed an abomination if bred in captivity but somehow its ok if found in the wild 1st???
 
You would think in the current circumstances they would be careful about scam adds, this one has been there for 5hrs.
I have reported many such adds and asked the obvious question, are they reported to the relevant authorities?


[SALE] Ghost Black Pastel Cypress Honey Ball Python – Male and Female
Price: $2,800.00 each Melbourne, VIC






  • Common Name: Arod.com.au
  • Scientific Name: Antaresia maculosa
  • Quantity: 2
  • Sex: Breeding Pair
  • Age: 3
  • Size: 4-6

Ad Description
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Pauls_Pythons said:
Even the morphs had to come from somewhere. The genetics all come from wild caught animals & line breeding.
Without private breeders reptile enthusiasts would still be getting their animals from the wild. The hatchling factories you refer to satisfy the need of the people who aspire to get into the hobby. If you go back 30+ years I would guess 90% of available animals were wild caught and transported around the world in very poor condition. The reptile trade in many countries is still rife with wild colony's of animals on the verge of total destruction due to mans desire to own anything that is beautiful & expensive.
I don't want to take the thread off track as it is about a local smuggling not morphs. Smuggling is obviosly still a problem but is keeping native animals off licence any less of a crime?

(I'm probably one of those factories you refer too though I keep less animals than many who don't even breed or have no desire to breed their animals).
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My hatchling factory reference to the large commercial breeders with flashy websites and youtube channels.
I am certainly against illegally harvesting animals from the wild. I also believe that keeping large volumes of animals in very small enclosures and breeding every year unethical.
 
yep .... pretty obvious operations like that are in it ONLY to line their own pockets .

This might be common overseas ( where hatchling farms are huge ) , we really don't this kind of thing here IMO.
 
This all seems to be away from the original thread but no Australian breeders operate under the US model where very large numbers of imported ball pythons were mass bred to produce a few morphs and the rest killed. The original albino darwin female was a wild snake and I happen to have selectively line bred particular traits from some of her original offspring. I also line breed black & white Julatten jungles that originated from rare wild caught animals. I rest my breeding females alternate years and have never power fed any of my breeders, they are all kept in large cages with perches and hides. Certainly albinos would be disadvantaged in the wild but some do survive, adult albino tiger snakes have been found and I personally had a wild caught adult albino dugite in WA as a young boy. (it was legal then)
 
^^ I hope you are correct , but doubt it ....

I wonder how many unacceptable hatchling snakes and lizards are killed by larger scale commercial breeders here when they lack the desired "qualities" that will make it saleable for a high price , and not profitable to even feed and house the ordinary hatchlings prior to trying to sell them (regarding them essentially as disposeable commodities of little or no value to them), especially since the boofocrats have allowed pet shops to get into the action and stock and sell reptiles.
 
Prof_Moreliarty said:
Ive asked this question before but what defines a morph? A colour or pattern alteration 1st observed in captivity? That seems to be the only difference with albinos 1 or 2 were found in the wild 1st and they are classed as wildtype? Mutations can and do appear in the wild take scaleless ratsnakes.. i dare say a scaleless CP would be deemed an abomination if bred in captivity but somehow its ok if found in the wild 1st???
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To me a morph is simply the appearance of an animal, its phenotype. Every genetic characteristic that has, or ever has come to be, is a mutation, whether recessive, dominant, or co-dominant. Some mutations prove advantageous to wild populations, allowing the animal to survive to maturity and pass on its characteristics to the next generation. Even if a morph such as an albino or scaleless is found in the wild, it doesn't necessarily mean it's "natural". One albino/scaleless (or whatever) random animal doesn't count as natural in my books anyway. It's just a fluke that it survived to adulthood. If it was a population, however . . . Mutations in the wild that do not benefit a species' survival will quickly be taken out of the gene-pool via natural selection. Then that "morph" passes out into obscurity. But in captive breeding, however, selective pressures such as predation are virtually non-existent and so the animal can survive and pass on its genes. That's why albinos are common in captivity. There are no wild reptile populations of albinos because it's simply not an advantageous morph. Albino animals are easily spotted by predators. It can be even more of a disadvantage to diurnal sun loving reptiles as it offers little protection from excess UVB. Albinism can effect eyesight as well. Come to think of it, I've only ever heard of one case where albinism survives in wild reptile populations. That is an albino population of rat snakes in Japan. But it appears that they survived thus because the local humans revered and protected them. I guess it was an advantageous mutation after all? But still, it's human intervention. Many of the "morphs" floating about in the hobby, as far as I'm aware, would stand little chance of surviving and establishing themselves in the wild.

While it's nice seeing all the different colours out there, and I won't deny that some of them are indeed striking, I just don't understand why it has become such a great race to create something "different". Breeding Black Headed Pythons with no black heads, Woma pythons with black heads, or black, red, yellow Green Tree Frogs, naturally spiky lizards that are now scaleless? Why change the animal from what it has evolved to be? Why is it that "paint jobs" only appear to matter these days? I just don't understand the hype. I'm probably old fashioned perhaps, but so be it.
 
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If he is the owner/co-owner of Snake Ranch, then RDU is run by Snake Ranch, as I understand it.
 
kingofnobbys said:
^^ I hope you are correct , but doubt it ....

I wonder how many unacceptable hatchling snakes and lizards are killed by larger scale commercial breeders here when they lack the desired "qualities" that will make it saleable for a high price , and not profitable to even feed and house the ordinary hatchlings prior to trying to sell them (regarding them essentially as disposeable commodities of little or no value to them), especially since the boofocrats have allowed pet shops to get into the action and stock and sell reptiles.
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It happens a bit with jags, many are not viable. I won't have anything to do with them.
I have a line of B&W jungles that are probably axanthic but I am not prepared to go through the process of outcrossing with normals to prove them as this will produce a whole lot of mongrels that are not readily saleable.
 
I would hope that is not a common practice of euthanising unwanted hatchys in aus.. if they are unwanted give them away free pretty sure they will clear quickly there was a bloke on rdu giving away woma hatchys free the other week needless to say ad wasnt up very long..
 
Snake Ranch was the brainchild of John Weigel, in partnership with a couple of others over the years, and was bought by Marty Kennedy and others a few years back. Whilst the aforementioned activities are not to be condoned, I think it's interesting how often those who call for blood in cases like this can't wait to avail themselves of the loot (or animals) that come from owning and breeding the smuggled stock. How many of you fawn over the ugly, blotchy freaks that come from all the mixed breeding with illegally imported morphs. Hypocrisy much?

Jamie
 
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