free handling elapids

[waruikazi]

You seem to be the only one who misread it. I'm not making it personal, i just cant believe your response. Your just so far off the mark. But i totally agree with your last sentence.

Have you ever been to hospital to visit a keeper bitten by a snake? The hospital staff love it. It's something different from the usual. In no way do hospitals make reptile keepers feel like their a burden on the hospital or the health system. The keepers treated like a celebrity.

You have said it is OK because the hospital staff apparently like it? how have i mis-read it???

 

[BIG RYANO]

You have said it is OK because the hospital staff apparently like it? how have i mis-read it???

Where do the letters OK appear in my post? Your freaking me out. I have simply stated the attitude of the hospital staff when i have visited a mate in there on a couple of occasions. Not once have i said it's ok or cool to put yourself in that situation. Your a concern.

 

[bredli84]

his point was that to the hospital staff, a keeper bitten by a snake is such a rare occurence that it's entertaining for them. he was saying this to indicate that it is RARE

 

[waruikazi]

Where do the letters OK appear in my post? Your freaking me out. I have simply stated the attitude of the hospital staff when i have visited a mate in there on a couple of occasions. Not once have i said it's ok or cool to put yourself in that situation. Your a concern.

Then what did you hope to get across by making that statement? No one ever said that hospital staff hate it when snake bite victims are admitted to hospital. I highly doubt that i was the only person to have read your post the way i did. Wether you meant it that way or not, the best you can say about your post is that it was worded babdly.

 

[Macca]

This thread seems to have degenerated. I will not enter into the debate on free-handling. I have seen a number of snakebite case studies, which is certainly why I choose not to free-handle.

However, Moosenoose makes an extremely good point in the availability of antivenom. Hospitals will only stock antivenom for locally occurring species. Zoos with larger reptile collections, like Taronga, Melbourne etc, do keep antivenom for the species that they have. I would suggest that any keeper who is not aware of the closest antivenom for the species they keep is totally irresponsible.

A couple of NSW facts for you.
The only hospital in NSW with Taipan antivenom is Westmead Hospital.
The only two hospitals in NSW with Death Adder antivenom are Westmead and Gosford.
A number of hospitals carry Polyvalent anitvenom, however about half do not.

If I was bitten by a Taipan, I know I would certainly want the Taipan antivenom rather than the polyvalent.

If you are not sure about antivenom in your local area of NSW, check the link below.
http://www.ciap.health.nsw.gov.au/downloads/guidelines/Snake_spider_guidelines_GL2007_006_A1.pdf

 

[BIG RYANO]

Then what did you hope to get across by making that statement? No one ever said that hospital staff hate it when snake bite victims are admitted to hospital. I highly doubt that i was the only person to have read your post the way i did. Wether you meant it that way or not, the best you can say about your post is that it was worded babdly.

No probs. We'll have to agree to disagree. I dont want this thing to go on forever. I guess everyone interprets stuff differently.

 

[da_donkey]

Thats a great link Macca, very interesting.

I was aware of Wyong and Gosford hospitals and the ARP because they are all local to me, but i did not relise the lack of Taipan antivenom in NSW hospitals :shock:.

donk

 

[waruikazi]

his point was that to the hospital staff, a keeper bitten by a snake is such a rare occurence that it's entertaining for them. he was saying this to indicate that it is RARE

Sorry mate you are wrong that can't of beenthe point of his post, this earlier post of his negates that.

I cant understand why everyone keeps going on about bites causing the authorities to clamp down on elapids. Keepers Australia wide get bitten on a monthly basis and you only ever hear about the odd case. I really think people are paranoid. The thing that would cause an uproar is if one escaped and bit an innocent kid or something like that. Is private keepers taking the odd bite really that big a deal? From what i heard from an employee of the CSL, a lot of anti-venom is eventually tossed out from not being used. Even after they give the old stuff to vets it can only be kept for so long after that before becoming useless. I think people are over reacting. Just my opinion.

 

[Colin]

Can I just ask why you seem to feel the need to free handle venemous snakes??
I love the fact that most people who seem to make a habit of it also seem very keen to have their pictures taken in the process, or do it in front of a crowd. All is it is someone trying to show off or make up for something else they are obviously lacking. There's no secret to it, most elapids do become very placid in captivity. Nothing justifies the risk, so say it's less stressful to a snake to be free handled than using a hook is complete rubbish.

That is SO TRUE

 

[bredli84]

not necessarily waruikazi, a keeper geting bitten every month australia wide would mean that most hospitals would only treat one every couple of years. when u compare that to car crash victims, assualts, sporting injuries etc you could consider that to be very rare

 

[salebrosus]

A couple of NSW facts for you.
The only hospital in NSW with Taipan antivenom is Westmead Hospital.
The only two hospitals in NSW with Death Adder antivenom are Westmead and Gosford.
A number of hospitals carry Polyvalent anitvenom, however about half do not.

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Your bloody lucky to find that out, i tried to find out before i upgraded my licence to Category 2 vens and they told me they weren't allowed to tell me. I was trying find out so that if i got a Copperhead and an accident happened then i knew that the local hospital would have what i need. Made me think twice about getting that licence.

Simone.

 

[waruikazi]

not necessarily waruikazi, a keeper geting bitten every month australia wide would mean that most hospitals would only treat one every couple of years. when u compare that to car crash victims, assualts, sporting injuries etc you could consider that to be very rare

ok sorry i shouldn't have started arguing statistics. But i stand by my main point. The risk does not justify the small ammount of pleasure and the huge cost a bite could encur someone may get from letting an elapid crawl all over them.

 

[bredli84]

im not taking sides here mate, just trying to interpret for you

 

[Scleropages]

Everyone should keep there hands off the snake!!!

 

[waruikazi]

im not taking sides here mate, just trying to interpret for you

Thanks mate, i appreciate your concer .

 

[BIG RYANO]

not necessarily waruikazi, a keeper geting bitten every month australia wide would mean that most hospitals would only treat one every couple of years. when u compare that to car crash victims, assualts, sporting injuries etc you could consider that to be very rare

EXACTLY. Thanks for explaining that to him.

 

[snakesrule]

This has turned in to a load crap. We might just as well all go out and neck our selves now or just ban every thing now
Because everytime I watch the news somebody has died from some cause whether it be road, rail, air accident, fire electricution ,drowning,shark attack or snake bite .
These things are accidents or just being in the wrong place at the wrong time.
Some are caused through negligence some arent .
When it is all said we are just human and humans make mistakes some sillier than others but they are mistakes and our hospitals, & cemeteries are full of victoms of human error.

 

[Macca]

Hey Simone,

I assume the people you spoke in the licencing department did not know where antivenom stocks were held.

If you were to get a copperhead, you would be pretty safe in knowing that antivenom (Tiger Snake Antivenom) is available in most hospitals. As many of the local species on the east coast come under Tiger Snake antivenom (ie. Tiger Snakes, Copperhead Snakes, Red-bellied Black Snakes, Rough-scaled Snakes), it means most of the hospitals stock this antivenom. However, it would be handy to know if the antivenom in your local hospital, although listed, is up to date and not expired.

 

[waruikazi]

Maybe i am way off the mark here. But there is a difference between risks, mistakes and neglegance. Risks come with doing anything, you could trip on somthing hit your head and die. Mistakes can and do happen, you forget to tighten your wheel nuts after changing a tire on your car, have a crash and hurt youself. Neglegance is when you know the risks, you know what can be done to minimise or eliminate these risks yet you do not do them.

To me free handling is neglegent, the person knows the risks and what can be done to minimise/eliminate them but they choose not to.

 

[moosenoose]

This is a good read: http://www.mja.com.au/public/issues/186_01_010107/jan10788_fm.html

Thirty minutes after arrival, he developed burning pain around the bite, associated with nausea, vomiting, diarrhoea, upper abdominal cramping, and diaphoresis.

Sounds like a load of fun hey? I wonder if all of those symptoms hit in quick succession :lol: