Glue traps

[notechistiger]

I've not once used a mousetrap. Just like all the spiders, cockroaches, etc., that venture into my house, so too do the stray mice get caught and killed by my jack russell. He never plays with them either (except for the spiders that evade him). He just chews into them and kills them very quickly.

 

[TerryW]

Ok, so let's put your creative journalism claim to the test, shall we?

This Relegatory Impact Statement blows your claim out of the water. Perhaps you would also like me to quote a passage from study conducted by the Animal Welfare Sciences and Bioethics Centre of Massey University, New Zealand (Mason & Littin, 2003)?

" However, when used by the general public, as in the USA, the length of time is unregulated and may be several days. During this time, rodents are likely to experience pain and distress through being trapped, the physical effects of the adhesive on functioning (eg suffocation; Potter 1994), and trauma resulting from panic and attempts to escape, such as forceful hair removal, torn skin and broken limbs (Frantz & Padula 1983). After 3–5 h, animals have been reported as covered in their own faces and urine (Franz & Padula 1983). When boards are collected, animals are also often squealing (Howard 1996; Agrizap 2000); one pest control operative even described them to us as “screaming their heads off”. Some rodents also bite through their own limbs to escape (eg Frantz & Padula 1983; Helst 2002). Sticky boards would thus seem to have the same major welfare costs as leghold traps: instant and prolonged distress and trauma, followed by dehydration, hunger and sometimes self-mutilation when animals are held trapped for long periods."

Doing a simple search, this website pretty much backs it up visually. Perhaps I should search for some anecdotes that further validates that is actually happens? Creative journalism doesn't really apply here when it is factual. And not only physical pain, but you have to take into account how absolutely terrified it must be being stuck on super glue and not being able to move. It is well documented that when animals are caught in traps, they will physically maim themselves in order to escape. There have even been cases of people who when trapped in life threatening situations, they had to exchange a limb to survive (eg. car accidents).

 

[tooninoz]

That's great Terry. I accept your need to become emotional and unrealistic about the issue. Especially when the first line of the 'accepted research' you took from Google states;

"However, when used by the general public, as in the USA, the length of time is unregulated and may be several days"

You are comparing all use of the glue trap to some research that concedes that not only is the actual research compromised, but people are leaving mice/rats et al in the traps for long periods.
Sorry mate, are you against glue traps or people that leave the rodents in them to suffer for a week or so?
To my mind, letting them sit partially crushed in a trap isn't a great deal better.
But I'll leave the touchy/feely pedantic stuff to you

 

[notechistiger]

Found this on youtube:

[video=youtube;NcAiCdSX6bw]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NcAiCdSX6bw&feature=channel[/video]

 

[TerryW]

That's great Terry. I accept your need to become emotional and unrealistic about the issue. Especially when the first line of the 'accepted research' you took from Google states;

Unrealistic? I'm giving you factual evidence. I am saying that glue traps are very inhumane and not necessary - how is that unrealistic?

You are comparing all use of the glue trap to some research that concedes that not only is the actual research compromised, but people are leaving mice/rats et al in the traps for long periods.

If you actually read the information, even a few hours on them is pretty inhumane. That's the problem - a lot of people do leave them in these traps for long periods. And due to the nature of these traps alone, that is a welfare problem. The animal isn't just going to lie there after getting caught, it's going to try and pry itself off and that results in some nasty injuries. These traps were designed with the intention to starve the animal to death, that's how it ultimately kills - if you take a look at the trap instructions, the manufacturer encourages people just to dispose of trap with animal (eg. chucking it into the bin alive).

These devices aren't even regulated here.

Sorry mate, are you against glue traps or people that leave the rodents in them to suffer for a week or so?

Both, as I'm opposed to the use of glue traps in their entirety.

To my mind, letting them sit partially crushed in a trap isn't a great deal better.
But I'll leave the touchy/feely pedantic stuff to you

The snap trap vs glue trap argument has already been addressed. I'd rather have my neck broken and dead almost instantaneously rather than starving on super glue. How about you?

 

[The Devil]

Where can I buy them, sounds like a great idea for these bloody Asian gecko's that have invaded my place and crap everywhere

 

[Fester]

Well, I don't leave it to suffer on a hook, I promptly dispatch it. I don't think you're allowed to boil crabs live anymore, despite them being on the level of insects as far as nervous systems go

Well if that is the case and they cannot feel pain, why the fuss about boiling them then?

This extract from the Wellcome Trust pain exhibition at the Science Museum in London
in regards to fish:

"Although comparatively simple, fish have recently been shown to possess sensory neurons that are sensitive to damaging stimuli and are physiologically identical to human nociceptors. Fish show several responses to a painful event: they adopt guarding behaviours, become unresponsive to external stimuli and their respiration increases. These responses disappear when the fish are given morphine – evidence that they are, mechanistically at least, directly analogous to pain responses in more complex animals"

 

[TerryW]

Well if that is the case and they cannot feel pain, why the fuss about boiling them then?

Because it's atheistically unpleasant, and psychologically too.

And I agree with you about the fish, it's already been established that they can feel pain.

 

[Jonno from ERD]

The thing is though, where do you draw the line? Do you think a fly suffers after it has been sprayed, I'm sure they don't die peacefully when you see them buzzing around in circles on the floor! Does a fly, an ant, a spider deserve the same humane treatment as a mouse? I bet you don't knock a woodie or a cricket on the head before feeding it to your lizards! I agree if the glue traps are left lying around unsupervised then the rodent will invariably suffer. I used to put them around the exit from their holes and as soon as I saw one attach itself I would immediately dispatch it humanely. And to say that mouse/rat traps are humane, I have seen them in fodder stores with rodents half caught in them, still kicking. Maybe you have gone fishing or crabbing? Is a fish hook embedded in a fish's mouth humane, or putting crabs in boiling hot water, I'm sure they have feelings too.

I think one of the very big lines that need to be drawn is whether an animal is a vertebrate or not. Regardless of whether it's a Green Tree Frog or a Cane Toad, the family cat or a house mouse, they all deserve the same, humane treatment.

 

[Fester]

I think one of the very big lines that need to be drawn is whether an animal is a vertebrate or not. Regardless of whether it's a Green Tree Frog or a Cane Toad, the family cat or a house mouse, they all deserve the same, humane treatment.

After TerryW starting this thread, and I had a bit of spare time on my hands, and your statement Jonno regarding vertebrates and invertebrates I did a bit of Googling. There is some that claim only vertebrates can feel pain, but on the other hand there are some that say there is evidence that some invertebrates are able to feel pain to a certain degree.
Just one article I found by a Jane Smith PhD:
http://dels.nas.edu/ilar_n/ilarjournal/33_1_2/V33_1_2Question.shtml

I know it is getting away from the "mouse glue trap" issue, but I just found the argument interesting!

 

[tooninoz]

Because it's atheistically unpleasant, and psychologically too.

And, I'll ask you to leave us atheists out of it!

Seriously, I haven't had many problems with mice, and I haven't had to put these out often. When I do, it's only a couple at a time and they are monitored a few times a day. The reason I originally used them was because half the time they didnt work, and outside of that, I got fed up with having to kill a creature that that had burst eyeballs, entrails out of its rear etc etc... I don't put the traps out on a whim, I don't get any enjoyment out of killing them and I would love for nowt better than to leave them be. And vice-versa.

 

[TerryW]

And, I'll ask you to leave us atheists out of it!

Seriously, I haven't had many problems with mice, and I haven't had to put these out often. When I do, it's only a couple at a time and they are monitored a few times a day. The reason I originally used them was because half the time they didnt work, and outside of that, I got fed up with having to kill a creature that that had burst eyeballs, entrails out of its rear etc etc... I don't put the traps out on a whim, I don't get any enjoyment out of killing them and I would love for nowt better than to leave them be. And vice-versa.

Sorry, my bad - aesthetically is the word I'm looking for.

I agree with you in principle that trapping animals should be done in a responsible and as much of a humane manner as possible. But I don't believe glue traps are the solution, because they suffer unnecessarily on it. While it is true that snap traps won't always work, you can guarantee that 100% of the time the animal will suffer on the glue trap. So really, I'm choosing the lesser of two evils here.

 

[Kirby]

they are horrible, horrible things.

we had to run over the rat with a forklift (in a bag) because it had ripped a whole side of its skin off trying to escape..

the only reason we find them is becasue they squeal so loud when there skin is ripping..

those who are PRO glue traps, good news, im making up a human sized one for your experience, then we will see whether these things are bad or not.... i'd like to see your responces, and who still has there hand up for their use...

 

[tooninoz]

they are horrible, horrible things.

we had to run over the rat with a forklift (in a bag) because it had ripped a whole side of its skin off trying to escape..

those who are PRO glue traps, good news, im making up a human sized one for your experience, then we will see whether these things are bad or not.... i'd like to see your responces, and who still has there hand up for their use...

Forklifts in bags? Human glue traps?
Surreal.....

 

[TerryW]

Forklifts in bags?

Maybe they were one of those toy forklifts?

 

[TerryW]

After TerryW starting this thread, and I had a bit of spare time on my hands, and your statement Jonno regarding vertebrates and invertebrates I did a bit of Googling. There is some that claim only vertebrates can feel pain, but on the other hand there are some that say there is evidence that some invertebrates are able to feel pain to a certain degree.
Just one article I found by a Jane Smith PhD:
http://dels.nas.edu/ilar_n/ilarjournal/33_1_2/V33_1_2Question.shtml

Hmm, that's an interesting article. But it's more or less inconclusive, so we can only go by what we know at the moment. But for this very reason, I tend to swat insects, not pull their wings or legs off one by one.

 

[Serpentes_15]

Glue traps would be fine if you staked each one out then the moment the animal is trapped humanely euthanase it. If it's a non pest simply remove with olive oil.


But lets be realistic 1 out of 2 million people would actullay do this. 1 in every 10000 will do what tooninoz does. The rest give the usual halfwit evil response" their only mice. Who cares about a mouse."

To control the people you need to control the products their using. They can't do it if they can't buy the traps.

Well thats my daily rant lol

 

[TerryW]

Glue traps would be fine if you staked each one out then the moment the animal is trapped humanely euthanase it. If it's a non pest simply remove with olive oil.


But lets be realistic 1 out of 2 million people would actullay do this. 1 in every 10000 will do what tooninoz does. The rest give the usual halfwit evil response "their only mice. Who cares about a mouse."

To control the people you need to control the products their using. They can't do it if they can't buy the traps.

Well thats my daily rant lol

So from this, you conclude that most of humanity is evil?

 

[Snake Catcher Victoria]

Yesterday, in a disount shop in Frankston I found this sticky trap for rats..

Cheap painful death.

When left unchecked animals like mice and rats take days to die..

Often pulling their own skin off and breaking bones in an effort to escape.

A lot of time the trap is just put in the bin with the living animal still on it.

They also trap and kill native animals when not used properly and

there is these pics that were posted here by casey of a juvy brown in a

sticky insect trap and I think he saved the snake by applying vegetable oil.










The oil breaks down the glue and

I have used oil to remove traps from snakes aswell.

I got this tiger off with some machine oil​

 

[Fuscus]

Yesterday, in a disount shop in Frankston I found this sticky trap for rats..

sssnakeman - report the shop to the RSPCA (the victims are furry so they will properly respond) - the sale of glue traps is illegal in Victoria - Glue Traps - Department of Primary Industries