Handling Venomous Snakes, What's Your Opinion?

[DanTheMan]

Aahh the good old days I missed out on! When if you wanted a snake, you had to do a bit of trial and error on good spots with the right habitat, and the right conditions as to where to find the snakes at the given time. In doing so, you would learn something about the captive husbandry of the desired snake/reptile.

These days, kids buy a spotted python then start a thread asking how to look after it.

 

[imported_Varanus]

From some of your posts and pics, I don't think you (or Matt) are missing out on much! Because of herps, you guys have probably seen more of Oz than many of your peers, I'm guessing.

 

[lizardking1974]

Handling Venomous snakes

Mmmm seems lots of people have an opinion on this subject so just thought I would add my two cents worth so to speak.I live in Tassie and if you want to keep snakes down this end of the world then you have no choice but to keep Vens as we only have three native snakes down here and they are Tiger snakes, Lowland Copperheads , and White lipped snakes whch are all venomous.I keep both Tigers and Copperheads at home all inside in large heated enclosures.When I decided I wanted to keep snakes it was not a decision that was made lightly I have handled snakes since i was about 8 years old and started out with Whippys and worked my way up from there. I have done numerous handling courses and Advanced handling courses but they can only teach you so much I have gained most of my experience from hands on working with these animals everyday I interact with my animals as much as i can and yes i do freehandle my Tigers everyday and trust them 100% and would not do so if i didn't they actually prefer to be freehandled than being on a hook they are much more at ease me handling them than being on the hook.However these are animals that i have had for quite some time and i have developed a trust and bond with these animals and i would never freehandle a snake that i encounter in the wild or one that has just been rescued as I am a qualified licenced snake handler/catcher so during the warmer months i do encounter quite a few snakes.I will always free handle it is a risk i am willing to take and i know the consequences of a bite from a Tiger snake as i have seen it second hand on a few other people i know who have been bitten not freehandling by the way!.So my thought on the matter is freehandle at your own risk it can be done safely with the right animal and if you are 100% confident in yourself as a handler.I have free handled for over 20 years with my only bite coming from a Whip snake that i was trying to save from a Copperheads mouth ungrateful little sod! Have some great pics of me freehandling my Tigers but am a bit reluctant to post because of all the cotroversy that comes with freehandling Vens.

 

[baxtor]

Sorry Dan the man but its attitudes like yours that give our hobby a bad name.
Bites and the usual media that follows aren't good for us elapid keepers.

I don't get the same feeling of the hobby having a bad name and certainly have not seen the media attention you mention. Maybe the media is just slow down where I live. The most cover I have ever seen is a short, no names mention in the local rag.

 

[jack]

As adults in any community it is our responsibilty to try and set a "GOOD" example.

a bloke at my school freely handled an elapid in a cool and calm manner today in front of about 20 teenagers.
i think he set a good example by not doing the typical aussie male response to such an animal

 

[PilbaraPythons]

Baxtor
What I am getting at, is that people who keep potentially dangerous elapids and get bitten draw attention to the whole issue of keeping dangerous snakes amongst the community. These incidences although rare never serve our hobby well, it is that simple. Collectively we should never promote anything that puts a negative outlook on the keeping of elapids. This starts in a small way right here on this forum by challenging the attitudes of elapid keepers in their bad influence on others.
Sure there are many dangerous elapids that can indeed be free handled but why promote it here or do it if it is unnecessary. Please tell me what purpose holding an unrestrained adult adder and posting up the pics serves besides self indulgence? Perhaps good debate? The people that do this and then post pics of their deeds here while not giving a hoot about any negative influence on others, are in my opinion selfish.

I will like to add, that in the past I have also posted pics similar, and are stupid for it

 

[dixilizards]

Just a quick question to all the keepers of venomous and 'mildly' venomous snakes.

All elapid keepers I know that have been bitten will outright proclaim that they were bitten whilst being complasant with either their handling technique or simply not paying attention (alcohol involved in some circumstances).

Is this the general case? or are my aquaintances the exeption to the general rule?

Cheers,
John

 

[JasonL]

Personally I don't think people should keep vens if they think they will never be bitten.

 

[PilbaraPythons]

In almost all cases it is complacency that brings you undone. Although I could in a few cases claim absolute stupidity

We should start a thread on stupid stunts with venomous snakes that went pear shaped, I know a few

 

[baxtor]

Just a quick question to all the keepers of venomous and 'mildly' venomous snakes.

All elapid keepers I know that have been bitten will outright proclaim that they were bitten whilst being complasant with either their handling technique or simply not paying attention (alcohol involved in some circumstances).

Is this the general case? or are my aquaintances the exeption to the general rule?

Cheers,
John

As far as my own experiences go I would agree. (absolutely NO alcohol involved though)

Pilbarapythons
I get your point and I sort of agree, it's just that I quite often see reference to the hobby's bad name yet I have never actually heard others in my community talk about the hobby in any way at all, good or bad.
I will admit I have typed out many a post over time defending freehandling with attached pics and all ready to stir the pot but have never actually hit the "post" button. I don't know if it is because I was being a responsible keeper or just a chicken without a flame suit.

 

[PilbaraPythons]

Maybe Baxtor I am a tad paranoid but would not be at all surprised that in the near future it will get even tougher to legally keep potentually dangerous pets than it currently is. I certainly hope not.

 

[longqi]

So long as you understand the potential consequences there is nothing wrong with playing with vens
Some; such as most Cobras Boigas and Red Bellied Blacks are pussy cats
Others such as Kraits and Saw Scales are very very seldom seen being free handled
Same goes for Coastal Taipans as most are totally unpredictable

The main thing is to understand that these little darlings can and will kill you if you make a mistake
One of my pet hates is demonstrators who show off unsafely with these or tell the public they are safe to handle
We have demonstrators throughout Asia who handle these with complete ease every day and very safely include the public in the demonstrations
But these guys and girls have been raised as snake handlers since childhood

We also have a death or two of demonstrators every year
I lost a good mate from Malaya last year through a Boiga bite
Just too much toxin build up/reaction over too many years and a virtually harmless ven killed him

Its a bit like playing Russian Roulette
You can do it safely X number of times

 

[DanTheMan]

I agree with you to a point PilbaraPythons, I can see where you're coming from. Yes it is silly of me to post that photo, it's pointless really and it was only to cause a bit of a stir. That photo is the only time I have really properly free handled a dangerous elapid, and I trust that adder more than most pythons.
Still, everyone has their opinions and I doubt anyone is going to change from what someone else on a forum says.

 

[PilbaraPythons]

Yes making videos and doing what I naturally do can indeed be a contradiction to promoting responsible behaviour and I am aware of this. This is why I insisted that we posted a warning in it (in the adder case, my sons comment) a small compromise I suppose. I nearly always tail elapids as I feel the most comfortable at the practice and I have been doing it since Jesus played football for Jerusalem. I do think however there is a difference between catching an elapid for a certain purpose than just holding in ones hand an unrestrained highly venomous snake. Although I am guilty of exactly that in my crazy years, the day I show a video of that, please someone punch me in the head because I would need it.

Dan

When I first got into keeping venomoue snakes I was always keen to free handle an adder and my wild collecting experience gave me the confidence to do so, so I do know where you are coming from ( you adrenalin junky ). My first try was with a northern adder and again I really trusted the snake. In my case, I think my attitude has changed because I have just become more mature as an old fart and perhaps also witnessing a few people suffer horrible envenomations right in front of me.
Don't be so sure that you can't change people attitudes by a simple forum discussion, I believe to some degree you can. I have been influenced by more than a few good posts right here over the years.

 

[eipper]

And one that I've been greatful for on a few occasions. Aggressive behaviour seems often confused with defensive and I'm yet to see an elapid chase anyone, but the stories abound.

I have been "chased" by 8 ft+ Coastals, 5 ft tigers and 2 mulgas over 8 ft bit different when they come at you first!!!

Dixilizards,

as for bites...every bite in captivity is a result of stuff up....if the snake was being handled safely there would not of been a bite. We as elapid keepers tend to cut the odd corner....cut enough corners and it catches up with you

Cheers,
Scott

 

[montay]

I agree with you.
Completely.

As a licensed relocator handling wild vens is part of a days work. As was previously said you can't learn in a 2 day course, sure you can get a grasp of the basic techniques but it takes a lot of exposure to vens to be able to understand the animal and learn their behaviour, read their body language and predict their reaction. It takes time and practice.

 

[Cockney_Red]

Its ok to handle them, just dont eat them....I have it on good authority, they are POISONOUS.....:shock:

 

[SnakeyTroy]

I gather by "handling" you mean free-handling?? I think that is definately a personal choice for the individual keeper. I have free-handled snakes before and I'm sure I will do it again. I prefer to use a hook though.

 

[grizz]

a bloke at my school freely handled an elapid in a cool and calm manner today in front of about 20 teenagers.
i think he set a good example by not doing the typical aussie male response to such an animal

Was it Bear Grylls!

 

[jack]

Was it Bear Grylls!

cheeky sod!
no it was me, and i dont drink my own pee