has anyone else been bitten by a tiger snake

[mysnakesau]

Sounds like I could have chance, but I don't want to move states if it means I have to leave any of my snakes behind. I did your Advanced Reptile Husbandry course to start with the pythons and lizards - I am not as scared of them as I use to be. I did voluntary work with Billabong Koala Park in their reptile section for 8 months and cleaned & fed all their lizards - blueys, water dragons, frill necks, cunninghams, land mullets, one lacey, perentie, shinglebacks, and their pythons. Wasn't allowed to touch the vens - vollies not insured.

 

[m.punja]

Gex. Glade to hear you are ok. For a guy not wanting to badmouth the instructor and happy to blame himself you had gone about this thread in a weird way, escpecially if all you wanted to know was if other peoples bites related to your own. It almost seems like you are bragging. I hope until then the day went great and you took in lots of information and can no go out and get lots of experience. Lets not turn this into a thread debating teaching methods, can't we all just agree no two people are alike and everyone has their own way. I like that people do things differently to one another, it gives you an oppertunity to learn many different styles and then use what works best for your own personal self.
I haven't been biten by an elapid but from what I have heard from others no two bites are the exact same, it sounds painful and can sometimes to long lasting damage. I know of one person who lost his sense of taste for a year.

 

[kupper]

Been bitten twice by tigers and once by a collettes tiger was more painful the second time the first time was a estimated 4 week old juvie got m when I was moving a few bags at a mates farm in kilmore the second was when I was working at pipeworks market , the colleges was my fault got stuck in a stupid position with the snake and the rest is history , tiger 1 hospital two days and very sick for 3 weeks tiger 2 didn't feel to good for a week sore around bite area for a month , collettes a 4 day stony in hospital and still have numbness in my right foot

 

[gex01]

Thanks kuppa finally someone who can help and answer my questions.Also thanks MPUNJA for the last few words in your post but the part about basically calling me a bragger and so on your out of line beleive me what ive been through the last week and the on going treatment which is somthing that im having i dont find pleasurable believe me untill you have experienced it yourself you will never understand how sick you become and to put your family through not knowing if you will come good is just as bad.This thread was meant to try and get a bit of help out of people who have been through it aswell as the after effects are quite worrying NOT TO TRY AND START A DEBATE.:x:x:x

 

[baxtor]

hi everyone i was free handling a few elapids in a controlled enviroment by that i mean with a few well respected handlers when i was bitten 3 times by a tiger snake.The symptoms have been insane with slight paralysys around bite site pain loss of taste headaches trouble focusing nausia weakness etc. After the bite i recieved 8 viles of antivenom and 3 days in intensive care. JUst wondering if anyone else has been through this them selves and how long these symptoms usually last.
cheers.

I can speak of two bites with the first by a sub-adult there was severe and immediate local pain at the bite site (index finger) quickly extending up the arm, slight nausea about 2 hours later with tingling lips and impaired vision and slurred speach. Treatment was delayed until about four hours after the bite when 2 vials of antivenom was administered. Blood clotting factors took a beating and severe cramping and muscle soreness for about 1 day, 24 hours in hospital. loss of taste for about 4 weeks. (very effective way to lose weight)
Second was an adult about 4 1/2 feet long, no pain at all at bite site or limb. Treatment within 30 minutes 4 vials. Blood took a beating again but no other symptoms present. Hospital for a day and a half but that was only due to bossy nurses. No loss of taste or any other ongoing affects.

 

[m.punja]

No worries Gex, reading your first few posts left me wondering which direction you were going with the thread but you are on the road to recovery from a tigersnake bite. I hope its something I never have to experience, having my passion for elapids and wanting to know everything about them continues to make me wonder about the effects from bites but I am in no hurry to stick myself with a fang to find out. It is interesting to read and hear about the different reactions people go through. Having all of my family worry over me is something I never want to put them through and something that keeps reminding me to be cautious when handlings my elapids, although some people may think my method is incorrect I don't and that is just my opinion.
Its funny, I'll go around a mates and watch him handle his vens and keep saying, yeah I wouldn't do that, then when he is around my place the tables are turned and he is the one saying that. Just a case of personal preference.
All the best

 

[gex01]

Thankyou for your reply mpunja i appreciate it and i also hope you never experience this either as people that have been through it also i can guarrantee would agree. Baxter THANKYOU so much as your first incident pretty much describes it perfectly except i found the neausea and vomiting came alot quicker but that was from a mature adult.Because of this im hoping that size is erelevant as the taste issue drives you crazy watching everyone else eat things that you know tastes so good but you cant taste a thing.OH did your taste fully recover.

 

[baxtor]

Thankyou for your reply mpunja i appreciate it and i also hope you never experience this either as people that have been through it also i can guarrantee would agree. Baxter THANKYOU so much as your first incident pretty much describes it perfectly except i found the neausea and vomiting came alot quicker but that was from a mature adult.Because of this im hoping that size is erelevant as the taste issue drives you crazy watching everyone else eat things that you know tastes so good but you cant taste a thing.OH did your taste fully recover.

Yes it fully recovered. To say I lost my sense of taste is not correct, it's just that everything (other than hot potato chips) tasted like ******.
Hope all goes well for you.

 

[gex01]

LOL Thanks Baxtor i know exactly what you mean.

 

[cement]

I've never been bitten but I would have to assume there would be instant pain because of the make up of the venom. Bees, hoppy joes etc all sting straight away, is it possible to be tagged and not know it?

 

[Snake Catcher Victoria]

Feels like a pin prick, no sting that im aware of.
Effects come on rapidly at the bite site from what Ive seen but the venom is meant for
killing their prey where as bees and ants signify their presence with an insant painful sting.
It is possible to get tagged and not know it, especially when walking through scrub but also in the maintenance of captives.

 

[Duke]

I'm curious, what would be the general consensus if you switched on the TV for the 5 O'clock news and you were flashed with the news headlines
"Sydney man dies from deadly Tiger snake while attending snake handling course"

I think one needs to treat any bite as a fatal one. If a student has been bitten then something has failed in the safety protocol.
It's be like a probationary police officer accidentally shooting another officer during a controlled live fire practice.
Or an apprentice electrician being hit with live three-phase current.
In both circumstances work-cover will be all over the employers like flies to a pile of doo-doo. Isn't there any responsibility for safety with those running the snake handling course?

I've never been to a venomous course, but do they *really* have to practice with a Tiger snake? Why not a really hungry Woma python or something less death-inducing?

 

[DonnB]

I've never been to a venomous course, but do they *really* have to practice with a Tiger snake? Why not a really hungry Woma python or something less death-inducing?

Seriously what is a woma going to teach you about elapids?
Would be even more careless teaching people to catch and relocate using a python then license them to go out and get browns, tiapans, tigers...

 

[Duke]

Please don't get angry at me, I'm just offering my opinion. I have no knowledge of elapid nature and husbandry, and I admit that freely.

"Now you see guys and girls, if that had been an elapid, Duke would now be fighting for his life"
Something along those lines are my reasoning.

Wouldn't a wild, hungry python behave the same way as an elapid?


Anoter analogy would be training paramedics with real dirty needles that have been contaminated with HIV / Hep / drugs etc.
OH&S would never allow it due to harm minimisation / risk assessment.

 

[BJC-787]

how can you do a venomous snake course without venomous snakes??????

after doing a course it is much easier and safer in my opinion to tail and bag a snake that to hook and bag a snake.

 

[Inlandtaipan078]

maybe i'll go for my driver's liscence in the big red car

the snake handeler course is great hands on elapids and pythons first aid theory and handling skills see the difference weather you think you can handle them or not is not up to any of us but you can be prepaired and learn off what others have been through if you know it all and arn't going to get taged you might as well book your hospital bed

 

[m.punja]

If a student has been bitten then something has failed in the safety protocol.

Duke, I can't see people taking it seriously when using pythons as demonstration tools. In victoria for a while the only course you could do and actually handle elapids was Hosers and his venomoids. I think it's great that now people can actually handle hot elapids. I was so dissapointed that all I got to handle was voids or childrens pythons.
There is no way to handle elapids and guarantee safety. Around more experienced keepers that can read snakes better makes it more safe but doesn't guarantee anything because accidents happen.
Tiger snakes, in my experience, are usually a very forgiving snake for newbis, I have heard of many people being headbutted by tiger snakes or they will just bluff hooding their necks and hissing. Also Tiger Snake Antivenom is very easy to get around most parts of Australia so Death from a Tiger Snake bite, you'd have to be pretty unlucky. Especially if you are in a room filled with other herpers and experienced people in Elapids and first Aid.
I don't think people would take courses as seriously or be more inclind to teach themselves with wild Elapids if all you could handle was pythons or colourbrids. Plus it'd be a stupid idea that people can get their license to catch and relocate after only practicing on pythons, that in no way would prepare you and you'd have no confidence at all.
At the end of the day, of all the courses out there being done and all the students handling elapids in these environments this is the first student bite I have heard of so I still concider courses to be pretty safe, and I am sure everyone knows before the pay that they will be asked to handle Elapids and then at the course if they are confident enough they'll be able to handle them. I highly doubt at no time anyone was forced to do these courses or forced to handle elapids if they were comfortable. So if you cope a bite it's more your fault then anyone elses because you put yourself in that situation knowing the risks involved.

 

[redbellybite]

Duke, I can't see people taking it seriously when using pythons as demonstration tools. In victoria for a while the only course you could do and actually handle elapids was Hosers and his venomoids. I think it's great that now people can actually handle hot elapids. I was so dissapointed that all I got to handle was voids or childrens pythons.
There is no way to handle elapids and guarantee safety. Around more experienced keepers that can read snakes better makes it more safe but doesn't guarantee anything because accidents happen.
Tiger snakes, in my experience, are usually a very forgiving snake for newbis, I have heard of many people being headbutted by tiger snakes or they will just bluff hooding their necks and hissing. Also Tiger Snake Antivenom is very easy to get around most parts of Australia so Death from a Tiger Snake bite, you'd have to be pretty unlucky. Especially if you are in a room filled with other herpers and experienced people in Elapids and first Aid.
I don't think people would take courses as seriously or be more inclind to teach themselves with wild Elapids if all you could handle was pythons or colourbrids. Plus it'd be a stupid idea that people can get their license to catch and relocate after only practicing on pythons, that in no way would prepare you and you'd have no confidence at all.
At the end of the day, of all the courses out there being done and all the students handling elapids in these environments this is the first student bite I have heard of so I still concider courses to be pretty safe, and I am sure everyone knows before the pay that they will be asked to handle Elapids and then at the course if they are confident enough they'll be able to handle them. I highly doubt at no time anyone was forced to do these courses or forced to handle elapids if they were comfortable. So if you cope a bite it's more your fault then anyone elses because you put yourself in that situation knowing the risks involved.

HIT THE NAIL RIGHT ON THE HEAD THERE PUNJA.... pythons dont even act the same as a heated up eastern brown ...in my opinion if you think you can do a ven handling /catching course and think your 100% safe then more fool you ...of course there are risks involved ,the trainers do there utmost best to avoid it but sometimes things happen ..I am sure in gex's situation that the appropriate 1st aid was given to him ,a best case senario in that situation..anyone that takes part in a risky hobby or job is at a higher % of accidental encounters ,wether it be with animals or machines....I suppose thats what makes the difference between people ,some will do it and some sit back and judge the ones that do ...

 

[snakehandler]

As a trainer I can say when you watch the behavior of snakes they are all different, to hand a person a python and tell them to treat it like it will kill you is not enough.

There were several analogies made by Duke, but what you are failing to see is what preceded the bite. I cannot comment on any other course that I have NOT attended and hence mods this is not an ad, just clarification, but we go through a series of steps, assessing a persons ability to work with reptiles, their attitudes and responses, we emphasize the dangers involved and will stop people who we feel cannot act in a manner which is appropriate for the situation. I have asked people to leave after the first two hours of the course and others will no get past handling copperheads. People have even failed after they have handled every reptile that is available due to a variety of reasons. Regardless of what the job is or the training is at some stage you must be put into a real life situation.

A driver does not only train on a simulator, an explosives technician does not only use blanks. Venomous snakes do not behave like pythons.

 

[peterjohnson64]

I've never been bitten but I would have to assume there would be instant pain because of the make up of the venom. Bees, hoppy joes etc all sting straight away, is it possible to be tagged and not know it?

This is an intersting poiint Cement. My bite last Thursday was my third from an RBBS but the first that had envenomated me. As soon as it bit me I could feel that there was venom. The pin prick that is associated with any snake bite was accompanied by a little sting around the bite area. This was different to the other bites so this time I bandaged my arm and went to hospital and was right.

But you probably need to experience both to know what I mean.