Help with sick spiny tailed gecko.

[Jonesy1990]

Hi guys, I need a bit of help with one of my geckos. I recently found my female spiny tail gecko struggling on the floor of their enclosure kind of hunched around to her right side. I immediately suspected MBD and replaced UV globes and proceeded to take her out for natural sunlight everyday while syringe feeding a mix of blended woodies, lectade for hydration, liquid calcium (from the vets) and repashy calcium plus mixed up with some water. She started to improve but nowhere near as well as she should be.

Yesterday I noticed a mass in her stomach and took her straight to the vet for an X-ray and a checkup. I was thinking either impaction or she may be egg bound. The unfortunate thing for me is I am a long way away from a dedicated Reptile vet and my local vet has very little experience with reptiles. They could see an opaque mass on the X-ray and called another vet (Reptile vet) for a second opinion. The diagnosis is that it’s either an abscess of some kind or swollen breeding organs.

The vets gave her an injection of calcium gluconate and told me to return home, keep her warm and continue my syringe feeding.

Is there anything else I could/should be doing to combat this?

Is there a better mix of food/supplements I could be offering her?

Any advice would be much appreciated.

Thank you.

 

[Foozil]

Pics may help. Best of luck with her. I think your best bet would be going to a specialised vet, or at least contacting them/sending them some pics.

 

[Jonesy1990]

Yeah thanks Foozil. My vet did send the specialist Reptile vet the X-rays and all the details. I’m about a 7 hours drive away from them though so I won’t be able to actually physically show her to them.

I’ll try and get some pictures up of their setup and the gecko. I don’t have a copy of the X-ray though sorry.

During the night I have her in my hatchlings rack for warmth and to see if she is passing any feces. During the day I put her back in the enclosure under the new UV light and spray her for hydration.

 

[Foozil]

Thanks for the pics. I can't help but I'm sure others can

 

[Nero Egernia]

It's a fine line. But the constant stress of being handled, shifted, and force fed may actually impede the healing process if it's not already too late. Good luck, and hopefully she recovers.

 

[Flaviemys purvisi]

During the day I put her back in the enclosure under the new UV light

Hi mate, what type of UVB light are you using exactly??

 

[Jonesy1990]

I have two in that dual light fitting. One is an exo terra Repti glo 10.0 26w I believe and I just replaced the other side which was a bit older with an exo terra Repti glo 100 26w which I believe is equivalent to the old 5.0.

It's a fine line. But the constant stress of being handled, shifted, and force fed may actually impede the healing process if it's not already too late. Good luck, and hopefully she recovers.

I agree Oshkii I am in two minds about the whole treatment process. I really don’t like stressing her out but if I don’t I think she will just dehydrate and fade away.

 

[Flaviemys purvisi]

I have two in that dual light fitting. One is an exo terra Repti glo 10.0 26w I believe and I just replaced the other side which was a bit older with an exo terra Repti glo 100 26w which I believe is equivalent to the old 5.0.

Sorry mate, are they fluoro tubes or those compact type fluoros?

 

[Foozil]

I didn't think UV was necessary for Strophurus?

 

[Jonesy1990]

Sorry mate, are they fluoro tubes or those compact type fluoros?

Compact style Edison screw globes.

I didn't think UV was necessary for Strophurus?

I was always under the impression that they do. They definitely seek it out during the day while resting in the branches IMO.

 

[Flaviemys purvisi]

Compact style Edison screw globes.

Ah OK mate that's probably your problem. Those compact style fluoros are pretty much useless. We advise against using them entirely at AFT. You'd be far better off using a fluoro TUBE type like these... in 10.0 or 5.0 or whatever is needed.


They'd need to be much closer as they (despite what the packaging says), T8's and T10's only emit UVB effectively up to about 15cm from the light itself.
Notice how close to the water's surface/basking docks I have them on my turtle tanks... less than 15cm, any further than this and they're ineffective.

T5's have a lot higher output and can be 30-45cm away from the basking reptile.

 

[Jonesy1990]

Ah OK mate that's probably your problem. Those compact style fluoros are pretty much useless. We advise against using them entirely at AFT. You'd be far better off using a fluoro TUBE type like these... in 10.0 or 5.0 or whatever is needed.
View attachment 322486 View attachment 322487
View attachment 322489
They'd need to be much closer as they (despite what the packaging says), T8's and T10's only emit UVB effectively up to about 15cm from the light itself.
Notice how close to the water's surface/basking docks I have them on my turtle tanks... less than 15cm, any further than this and they're ineffective.
View attachment 322488
T5's have a lot higher output and can be 30-45cm away from the basking reptile.

Thanks mate [emoji1303]I’ll definitely take this into consideration. I do have some other style fittings so I might look at swapping some stuff around.

I’m also not too worried about MBD at this stage. The vets said the bones looked good on the X-ray and they weren’t thinking it was an MBD issue.
The male is in the exact same setup with the same diet and has no issues at all.
Thanks.

 

[Foozil]

I was always under the impression that they do. They definitely seek it out during the day while resting in the branches IMO.

I read that as long as you are dusting their food with calcium they wouldn't need it? I may be wrong, was just on an online care guide, which is probably wrong

 

[Flaviemys purvisi]

Good luck with the little lady. Hope she comes around and gets back to normal ASAP.

 

[Jonesy1990]

I read that as long as you are dusting their food with calcium they wouldn't need it? I may be wrong, was just on an online care guide, which is probably wrong

Yeah I read some guides which said the same but I would rather offer it even if not needed, that way I’m covering all bases. I can’t see it being a negative if I offer it even if they don’t require it.

 

[Flaviemys purvisi]

I read that as long as you are dusting their food with calcium they wouldn't need it? I may be wrong, was just on an online care guide, which is probably wrong

Calcium dusting is useless without D3 from UVB light to synthesize and metabolise the calcium. There's a direct relationship between calcium absorption and UVB.

 

[Nero Egernia]

Calcium dusting is useless without D3 from UVB light to synthesize and metabolise the calcium. There's a direct relationship between calcium absorption and UVB.

Vitamin D3 is not solely acquired through UVB light. It can be ingested in food sources such as fish, eggs, and whole bodied animals. These sources contain stores of active D3, which can be directly transferred back to the predator. That's why nocturnal or large predatory reptiles such as pythons, monitors, and sizable skinks can survive and breed without the use of UVB. But yes, Vitamin D3 is necessary in Calcium absorption. Many commercial reptile supplements contain Vitamin D3 and Calcium together to ensure strong bone growth and the ongoing health of the pet reptile at hand.

 

[GBWhite]

I don't think Kev has a great deal of experience keeping geckos and I know he's trying to help but you don't need a UVB tube with these guys and if MDB hasn't been diagnosed then there is no issue with a calcium deficiency relating to it's condition. You probably don't need two UV lights either just one that's set up with a basking light at one end of the cage over multiple branches where it can bask and absorb UV. A heat gradient of between 32 - 34 deg c to low 20's is preferred. Cage fitting should include sheets of bark and clumps of grass like shrubs across the enclosure where it can shelter and feel secure once it has reached it's desired body temperature. I don't know if you're aware of it but some don't recognise standing water and it's advisable to lightly spray the cage furnishings and sides of the enclosure so the gecko can lick up the droplets to remain hydrated. If you haven't already buy yourself of Rob Porters "Keeping Australian Geckos".

 

[Flaviemys purvisi]

Yes that's right Oshki, the uvb light isn't the only source of D3 but it's a simple reliable one for captive reptiles kept indoors that are fed a natural realistic diet without suppplements. I'm of the opinion (like many others) that all reptiles, diurnal or nocturnal can beneit from UVB lights. I even provide Sylvania Reptistar 5.0 UVB lighting for my 6 green tree frogs. My pythons also have access to UVB. I realise plenty of peopole will say it's not necessary but I have always provided all reptiles in my care with it.
[doublepost=1514456133,1514455993][/doublepost]Cheers George, no I honestly have never kept geckos and most likely won't ever. UVB lighting although not necessarily needed for their setup, if correctly provided, certainly wouldn't be detrimental.

 

[Bluetongue1]

Sorry here about your gecko.

The food you are providing is nutritionally sound but if you really feel the need, you could use Wombaroo insectivore mix. Try the local pet food supplier. The vet should carry it if they do not. It is also getting extra water in the mix, so hydration should not be a problem, and you probably only need to mist once or maybe twice a week.

MBD affects the entire skeleton and shows up very clearly on an X-ray if present. Given that the vet said bone density was good, you can rule that out. Given the injection from the vet I’d wind back the calcium to just the normal amount you give it.

How much are you feeding it in comparison to its normal intake at a meal and how often? Given there is an internal mass, there may be a possibility it could restrict the passage of food/wastes in the gut. Did the vet comment on this? If it were me I’d set up an alternative enclosure and keep it there fulltime to monitor its bowel movements.

Until you get a diagnosis on the nature of the internal mass there is not much else you can do. There is probably a wildlife carer in the area and it may be worth having a chat to them if they any experience in dealing with small reptiles.