How to tell if rats have been culled humanely, please help

[Tigerlily]

Hi, so I asked this in another thread but no dice so I figured I'd start a new one and hopefully get some insight.

Is there a way to tell if rats have actually been culled humanely? I only want to buy rats that have been killed the correct way by CO2... I was told by a pet shop recently that they just freeze their rats and after doing a search on this forum I know for a fact that's not humane. (Does anyone know if that's even legal??? Even RSPCA couldn't tell me...)

Is there a way to tell if a rat has suffered, or was frozen without being gassed first? I just recently had an eye opening experience where my old supplier showed up at my house with a tub full of live rats and I was really horrified at the conditions they were being kept in. I'm not trying to offend people here because I know for a lot of herp keepers rats are just food and I'm sure your definition of rat husbandry is drastically different from mine, which I totally understand. But I can't help that I have a soft spot for them and the thought of feeding my roughie animals that were cruelly killed makes me sick. It was a very eye opening experience and put me in a difficult position where I was seriously reconsidering whether I should keep my roughie (who is my baby - most people think it's weird how much I love him, so it really isn't just a small issue for me) or not.

Sorry, my point is that when I look back on things, I can see differences between this supplier's rats and previous suppliers'..... in the past, all my rats ALWAYS had their eyes completely closed. In fact I remember when I saw a pack of frozen mice for the first time I was shocked at how lifelike, clean and peaceful they looked. But with this supplier, I started getting rats whose eyes were half open, who had droppings attached to them sometimes, flakes of sawdust etc. And they smelled really strong (like rat), whereas previous supplier's rodents barely smelled. Oh, and when defrosting in warm water there would *sometimes* be blood... not sure from where. I was told by them that the rats were gassed with CO2 - does this sound right to you? I understand that there is a two-step gassing procedure that's the most humane - is there a way to tell if the rats were given this method or not?

Also, I have never seen a rat in any position other than the standard lying on the side position. If a rat was frozen, would it still die in this position? Would there be any other telling signs?

THANK YOU GUYS for any help, it means a lot to me. Cheers

 

[hulloosenator]

there is no way of telling , unless you take it to a lab for an autopsy ..... very costly .

just like when you get a steak out of the fridge ...... ever think how the cow was killed ? or that chicken you get from KFC ?
or that piece of fish you had on Good Friday ? ........ how well do you define the word "humane"?

just raising the questions ..... thats all . I am an animal lover for sure. ( especially the ones that taste good )

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[Ramsayi]

Is there a way to tell if rats have actually been culled humanely?
I only want to buy rats that have been killed the correct way by CO2

No real way to tell.
CO2 is not the only correct way.

If you are really concerned about all of this then you might be better off breeding your own.

 

[-Peter]

Mine are still smiling...

 

[Stuart]

According to a paper on euthanasia of animals for a scientific purpose (currently under review) by the ANZCCART in Adelaide it highlights that Euthanasia of the animal must meet the following guidelines

2. The method chosen will vary with the species and the purpose for which the animal isbeing killed but must satisfy the following criteria as set out in the policy on euthanasia ofthe Australian Veterinary Association (AVA, 1997); namely:
   • death without signs of panic, pain or distress;
   • minimum time to loss of consciousness;
   • reliability and reproducibility;
   • simple relatively maintenance-free mechanical equipment;
   • minimal environmental impact through contamination;
   • minimal emotional effects on the observer and operator; and
   • safety for operators and observers

It mentions methods in which physiological changes occur in the dead rodents dependant on method, but they are subtle however ,Under section 3 of the paper, it lists that rapid freezing for rodents is an unacceptable practise. It touches on the food and pet trade as well if you are interested in a read. https://www.adelaide.edu.au/ANZCCART/publications/Euthanasia.pdf

Personally, dependant on the amount of animals, a good hard donk on the head always seems to work.

 

[butters]

The person at your pet shop is an idiot and has no idea what they are talking about.
Who freezes live rats? Why would you?
that just makes things harder for you and the rat. Gas or a quick "donk" and the rat is humanely dead and still limp and able to be neatly packed in a bag. Ever tried to rearrange frozen rats in a bag? Nightmare.
it is highly unlikely that the rats from your pet shop have been placed in the freezer to kill them. They would have been gased or cervical dislocation has been applied/ used. Much more likely that your pet shop employee has no idea.

 

[hulloosenator]

i am amazed that you are so concerned ....... gee whiz , if only you knew how all of your food originated from raw material to packaging , i think you would starve .

and what do you think happens in the wild ????? some poor Bilby is constricted in a painful death or death by venom of a taipan or brown snake - terrible way to go

 

[Beans]

i am amazed that you are so concerned ....... gee whiz , if only you knew how all of your food originated from raw material to packaging , i think you would starve .

and what do you think happens in the wild ????? some poor Bilby is constricted in a painful death or death by venom of a taipan or brown snake - terrible way to go

I think that captive and wild food items are a totally different ball park many will disagree but whatever. The way snakes kill thier food in the wild is just how it happens, they dont have people interfering.

In captivity, the food not only doesnt have a chance to run, but it is being killed by people. Why make it suffer. Just end it nice and quick and be done with it. It's more humane and much fairer on the prey item.

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Will add that there isnt really any way to tell unless, you do autopsy. If you're really worried about it buy from an outside supplier most of them do co2 because its quick, effective and humane. Or breed them yourself.

 

[PythonLegs]

i am amazed that you are so concerned ....... gee whiz , if only you knew how all of your food originated from raw material to packaging , i think you would starve .

and what do you think happens in the wild ????? some poor Bilby is constricted in a painful death or death by venom of a taipan or brown snake - terrible way to go

we're not 'in the wild'.

 

[Tigerlily]

THANK YOU [MENTION=27815]SniperCap[/MENTION] for that informative read!

Thanks also [MENTION=9894]butters[/MENTION]; what you said makes so much sense and I was hoping that it would be a case of clueless pet shop employees.

As for [MENTION=27470]hulloosenator[/MENTION], I was going to ignore your first comment because it's full of assumptions and I don't feel the need to explain my personal lifestyle choices to you. I'm just going to point out that out of both posts you took the time to type out the only vaguely sensible line was "there is no way of telling , unless you take it to a lab for an autopsy ..... very costly." Cheers for that - I'd never have thought of it myself.