Large Dedicated Green Tree Python Enclosure with Aquarium

[Jake007]

Jake 007 how many hours do you think would go into building this over a Chinese imported plastic glass enclosure add time and materials a good tradesman is worth a minimum of $60 a hour


Cheers Brenton[/QUOTE]


I never said glass enclosures yes there cheap and they do the job for people on a budget but u can all so find stained timber ones at reptile shops ( need to open your eyes) but yes I got a glass enclosure 200$ cheap as chips does the job for a hactie

Just chucking it out there im a chippy by trade I do no u have to get. Good chippy 60~70$ but it's a cabinet makes job that would do this more then a chippy just letting you no

 

[Erebos]

Nice enclosures Ben


Cheers Brenton

 

[Just_Plain_Nuts]

Nice enclosures Ben


Cheers Brenton

Thanks Brenton

Let me assure that I always look at improving our enclosures and striving for perfection in all areas...so I will be doing some further investigations into these concerns.
We do already have features in these that we offer like the V Cell , ventilation and aquarium filters

 

[Ryant16]

Let me assure that I always look at improving our enclosures and striving for perfection in all areas...so I will be doing some further investigations into these concerns.
We do already have features in these that we offer like the V Cell , ventilation and aquarium filters[/QUOTE]

Just plain nuts, has anyone you ever sold enclosures to ever gotten back to you with any of the problems pythoninfinite above has mentioned? Not that I'm having a go at either of you im just wondering.

 

[Pythoninfinite]

Surely it's glaringly obvious - the snake faeces has nowhere to go except into the water from which the snake drinks. This immediately begins the brewing of a bacterial soup, and the bacteria are not just suspended in the water - they coat all surfaces in the wet environment - with the result that short of draining the tank and scrubbing all wet surfaces with disinfectant, you will always have the makings of a potentially serious infection source.

The large body of water will also cause the humidity to be constantly close to 100%, and even GTPs should only be misted every few days at most. In the wild they have a choice about the temps and humidity they need at any time and move accordingly. In this enclosure they have no choice, and together with having to drink from a contaminated water source, they have to cope with a constantly saturated environment. Not good for the animal, regardless of the appeal to the owner.

I'm not trying to be difficult about this, but there was a school of thought some years ago that Chondros would do well if their encolsure floors were water. That idea faded for the obvious reasons. A good enclosure is one in which the captive animal thrives, and to thrive they need choices. This enclosure removes at least two of the choices fundamental to the health of your animal - the ability to access clean, FRESH water as needed, and the ability to seek locations of varying humidity.

Jamie

 

[Ariande]

Couple of things that might ease your mind Jamie:

1. I have a hygrometer in the enclosure and although it's a fairly basic one, I check it at least a couple of times per day. The humidity in the enclosure has never gotten above 55% since I've had it, despite the following:

- I've had the waterfall running 24 hours a day.
- I live in Sydney and in the last month we've had basically nothing but constant, torrential rain every day. If you're not from Sydney, look up the floods.
- The weather has been COLD, so the enclosure [on a 12 hour on/off cycle] and the water in it would often be much warmer than the ambient temperature of my lounge room.
- I've checked the humidity at varying times of the day, at varying points on the light/heat cycle.

Since the humidity has never gotten too high for the jungle python that lives in there, I can only assume that the overall space in the enclosure is large enough with enough vents to placate the fact that there is water at the bottom. If anyone thinks that my hygrometer is broken, I'd be happy to get another one and let you know the results of that.

2. Since getting the enclosure and until I find evidence of how the water and the filter copes with the snake droppings, I've had a separate bowl of fresh water [changed daily] on one of the platforms. At no point has the snake only had the option of drinking from the aquarium. Like I said earlier in the thread, we're planning on testing the water to see what the effects are before relying on it for any particular function, e.g. drinking water, a fish etc.


Don't assume that I'd put the heath of a pet at risk just because I want something cool looking. I can't speak for anyone else who has an enclosure like this but for me, the above is just common sense.

Also, read this thread for a lot of discussions on how to make an aquarium work:

http://www.aussiepythons.com/forum/general-reptile-discussion-42/aquarium-enclosure-163535/

Not saying the ideas necessarily DO work, but they're ideas I'm definitely going to try out [and test].

 

[Pythoninfinite]

OK Ariande, I accept some of your points. I live on the mid-north coast so am fully aware of the bloody rain we've had this summer !!! I'm an experienced aquarist, both freshwater & marine, so I have a good idea about water management on a small to very large scale (I designed & managed a 45,000 litre marine tank for the Aussie pavilion at Expo 92 in Seville, Spain)... regardless of the other parameters, having a large container of contaminated water as the base of a reptile enclosure is not good practice. Even with a few fish, to maintain pristine water quality would require relatively large biological filter mechanisms. Given the relatively huge size of a snake dump into a small body of water, for a few days at least (and probably longer) the capacity of any practical-sized filter would be overwhelmed dealing with the load. The nitrogen cycle that good filters establish needs to be stable for months to work effectively - ammonia to nitrite to nitrate - they all require different bacteria and a lot of time to do their work as the waste is processed. If you use an external filter which is cleaned regularly, you are only removing the solid filtered waste because the biological cycle cannot be established and stabilised. To do this requires a combination of aerobic and anaerobic bacteria, and at the end of all that you'd need a protein skimmer to get the remaining crap out.

I'd have no problem with the waterfall feeding a smaller reservoir which can be easily removed on a regular basis and thoroughly cleaned as needed, but the large body of water as the full base of the enclosure WILL eventually create management problems.

I have no doubt that you do give the health of your snake maximum priority Ariande, and wasn't suggesting otherwise. If you know what you're doing the situation may be manageable with the input of heaps of time for that one enclosure (I could do it but would find the time required daunting), but there are lots of keepers out there who have no idea about the complexities of managing such a system, and the inherent risks to the animals in the enclosure.

Jamie

 

[Just_Plain_Nuts]

Just plain nuts, has anyone you ever sold enclosures to ever gotten back to you with any of the problems pythoninfinite above has mentioned? Not that I'm having a go at either of you im just wondering.

Only with Denuel's enclosure which had half the volume of water and an adult GTP. In that one it did struggle with the snake pooing in the water. I just have to work out what is a reasonable volume of water to cope with this. I just took a humidity reading on my display enclosure which has a 550L aquarium and waterfall which runs 24 /7. It's humidity levels were only 8% higher than room ones at 48% humidity...So I am not too concerned about those figures. What I will do is take water samples over a week or two before and after poos and see what the levels are like, but I have had aquariums in my display enclosures for years without ever having problems with the snake or fish...

 

[Just_Plain_Nuts]

Ok 2 weeks of water testing every 2 or 3 days and I have concluded that our tank with the large aquarium has absolutely no trouble coping with the snake pooing in the water. All our tests came back with perfect levels for Nitrite,Nitrate and Ammonia. Even after a poo in the water. The aquarium had a water change once at the start of this period and the filter hasn't been cleaned out in months... These tests were done independantly by Pet Crazy in Robina (Thanks guys).
Now to do testing on a small tank, I will have to ask one of my customers.

 

[scorps]

A very simple way to stop the water going septic and turning into anaerobic bacteria would be to smash the aquarium with aeration, although it wouldn't look that good lol

A couple of fundamental husbandry problems keeping snakes over water - the water reservoir becomes a septic tank as soon as the snake has a crap (and any filtration of a suitable size to deal with the bacterial bloom wouldn't fit into the room), and if the water is heated, there will be constant condensation on the inside of the glass as soon as the ambient temperature drops below that of the enclosure, with the consequent buidup of water running down the glass into the base of the enclosure.

The unavoidable bacterial buildup would be my biggest concern, and the fact that ultra high humidity is bad for all snakes, even GTPs.

Could look good if well set up, but for the health of your snakes, definitely not the way to go.

Jamie

 

[peterjohnson64]

jamie I wish I'd spoken to you about this earlier. I lke Scorpos idea of aeration and that can certainly be done at the back of the feature and wouldn't be seen. I am also going to put in a UV filter and will now add the biological one as well. I am also think if filling the pond with plants. I already ahve the enclcosure so managemnt is now the more mportant issue. He only craps abotu 4 tiems a eyar so 4 water cleans is not a big issue.

 

[daveandem2011]

I have one being built and I can't wait!!! Bens enclosures are amazing

 

[GlennB]

Me too but mines only a small custom bend work is the best

 

[peterjohnson64]

One other thing. I think heating is going to be an issue in Sydney. Even with a big aquarium full of 28 degree water it is still only 22 degrees up high in the cage. I can't heat the water any more. It will need an extra way to heat it in the colder states.

 

[Just_Plain_Nuts]

they are designed to heat the basking spot ie perch only. So you will only find the warm temps on its branch directly under the heat light. If you want to raise the total ambient temp then you could try and cover the top vent to stop the warm air escaping. Alternatively you can add more downlights. If you want to go with the second option I can send you matching downlights.