Let hunting safaris go ahead: croc expert

[herptrader]

http://www.theage.com.au/news/national/croc-safari/2005/09/26/1127586799627.html

Let hunting safaris go ahead: croc expert
By Lindsay Murdoch
Darwin
September 27, 2005

A WORLD-RENOWNED crocodile expert has attacked Steve Irwin and animal welfare activists opposed to the safari hunting of crocodiles after a man was attacked and killed off a remote Northern Territory island.

Darwin-based Grahame Webb, an adviser to wildlife organisations in many countries, said opposition to a NT Government proposal to allow hunting of a few crocodiles was "absurd when you have animals eating people".

Police are hunting a four-metre saltwater crocodile believed to have killed British mines superintendent Russell Harris, 37, off Groote Eylandt last weekend.

Police said Mr Harris was last seen snorkelling 20 metres off shore while his American wife and a couple waited for him on the beach. His body was later found about 1.5 kilometres away.

Associate Professor Webb, a zoologist at Charles Darwin University, said the Federal Government was procrastinating over approving the NT Government's plan to allow the safari hunting of 25 of the territory's estimated 70,000 crocodiles because of pressure from Queensland zoo operator Steve Irwin and other activists. Their real goal, he said, was to "have all of us just eating vegetables".

"How would Melbourne or Sydney people go with crocodiles in their backyards? I can tell you, they would lose their patience very quickly," Professor Webb said.

"Nothing is to be gained from being cruel to animals. But our conservation program up here is at stake because landowners have to have an incentive to put up with crocodiles ? it's important that landowners see crocodiles as an asset." Professor Webb said the claim by activists that allowing somebody to pay money to shoot a crocodile would damage Australia's reputation was ridiculous.

Professor Webb, whose company Wildlife Management International owns Crocodilus Park in Darwin, said crocodiles would kill more people in northern Australia but for a strong education program.

"The reality is that these things can kill you and we have done a remarkably good job living with them," he said.

 

[herptrader]

From the poll on the Age web site:

http://theage.com.au/polls/national/results.html

Crocs

Do you oppose crocodile safaris despite the fact that cocs are eating people?
Yes, killing animals is plain wrong - 50%

No, if you don't kill them, they'll kill you - 49%

Total Votes: 571

 

[bigbing]

If you don't want to be eated by a croc, don't go swimming in his water, sounds pretty simple to me :|

 

[Vat69]

I agree that in certain circumstances its ok to remove crocs, but that poll by The Age is ridiculous. "Kill them before they kill me" that's an awesome way to think :wink:
I agree with bing bing though, if you don't want to risk getting taken then don't put yourself in the situation where that is a possibility.
Living in NSW crocs obviously aren't a threat to me, but if I saw a funnel web walking around in my house I wouldn't think twice about having it removed. Not the same I know, but you get my point. And if someone wanted to pay for the privledge of removing it for me, good for both of us

 

[herptrader]

Cheap Scotch and Big Bin, I tend to agree. I have eaten croc and quite enjoyed it. The reasons I would like to seem them farmed or harvested have nothing to do with the possibility of being eaten but more to do with habitat conservation and sustainability.

If you go swiming in their habitat then to some extent you deserve to get eaten.

It is interesting that the mini poll I put up has almost exactly the same proportion of yae/nae responses as The Age one.

 

[Scootaaa]

Hi All,
I think there should be one law across australia for croc and shark attacks as to wether we should hunt them down and cull them from popular tourist areas or just leave them alone since we have invaded there habitat...

 

[SLACkra]

isn't channel nine doing some shark thing that basically from the add for it looked like anti shark propoganda?

leave the sharks and the crocs alone, you don't want to be eaten then don't go into their territory. also the majority of shark attacks are a bite and run type thing. shark bites man thinks wtf, this isn't a seal! swims off. course the human is left with a nice bite.

interesting fact but when the shorter surf boards were introduced shark attacks increased. the long surf boards don't have the silouette of a seal at the surface the short ones do.

andrew

 

[foxysnake]

I might open up a whole tin of worms here, but my opinion is there is a need for some crocodile culling. Maybe not as extreme as when they did it last though. Where I grew up in Ingham, all my life went on fishing trips in the local waters. And it is amazing now the amount of crocodiles there now. They're obviously breeding well and aren't scared of the boats and I think it is just a matter of time till some1 gets taken there - sightings at popular boat ramps etc are quite common there as well. When I was younger you use to be 'lucky' to see a croc. Now the last time I went fishing in a boat in Dugeness, Lucinda (in Ingham), I spotted 5 crocs all around the 2 metre and above mark. I think there should be a culling of crocs that reach a certain size and are in waterwars that used are frequently either for fishing and waterskiing etc. Like I said just my opinion.

 

[ErisKSC]

All over the world man has stepped into the environment of other animals, and unless there is concerted conservation efforts the animals and man never seem to be able to share?
So if the price of having crocs around for the rest of time is that we need to control their populations then i'd rather see money enter the community through hunting fees, then see the same community out of pocket because of lost tourism or expensive trapping regimes.

If some foreign (or local) hunter wants to pay for the right shoot one, providing a good portion of that money goes back into the area that the animal was removed from, then i'm even considering a career change...

 

[splitty]

When an animal is culled it is normally done by professional shooters. They do it for a living and can normally kill an animal in one shot. If we were to allow everyday thrill seekers who are only after a trophy to come in to hunt these animals, whats to say that it is not going to take them quite a few shots to kill the poor animal. Then the animal will needlessly suffer. This i disagree with.

Also Im of the opinion that if u are going to invade the animals natural habitat then u take the chance that u will be injured or killed. Tuff titties. Same goes for sharks, lions or hippos.

 

[Guest]

Splitty, the proposal that went through actually outlined the fact that not all people can shoot accurately, so on every safari there would be a trained and experienced marksman that would put a shot in the correct spot pretty much at the same time or a second after the customer had taken his shot. So i dont think they will suffer perse, but with that, im still on the fence as to whether it should go ahead or not.

 

[splitty]

Teamsherman - Im glad to hear that. For once the government is using commonsense instead of bowing to the almighty ollar. :lol:

 

[Vat69]

Heh yeah commonsense in the sense that this way they can better fend off the animal rights activists and continue using the scheme to make money :wink:

 

[herptrader]

It is perhaps unfortunate but one of the best ways to ensure that a creature such as the crocodile and its habitat are preserved, well looked after and possibly even extended is to make it ecconomically important. The flow on effects for other fauna and flora that inhabit the same habitat are emense as the whole ecosystem is kept healthy.

This does not only apply to croc's. Imagine if Aussies preferred kangaroo to lamb as a stapel. Much of the kangaroo habitat has been cleared for the grazing of sheep. Not only is it now poor quality habitat for kangaroos but also every other plant and animal that used to live there.... and whats more the kangaroos are now often considered pests. If we could turn the balance back in the kangaroo's favor, by making them economically important then there would be a vested interest in returning the native habitat and making it pristine. Instead of just sheep, exotic pasture and fences we would have a whole native ecosystem with, kangaroos, other native animals, ( such as herps ;-) ) and plants. It would also be a lot more sustainable in times of drought etc. than the current mess of agriculture.

 

[Sdaji]

Some good points there, trader. It's difficult to explain to people that it is in the best interests of kangaroos for us to eat them, just like it is in the best interests of crocodiles to have them hunted commercially. People generally aren't willing to think things through carefully before forming an opinion, they'd rather form an opinion immediately and then defend it visciously.

If we all decided we wanted never to eat cows or sheep again and instead eat an equal amount of kangaroo, the population of kangaroos would actually go up and the population of sheep and cows would decline. People don't seem to realise these things, I suppose that's because if you only think about it for a few seconds and ignore the follow on effects, you may think that killing members of a species will bring about a decline in its numbers.

I find it very difficult to understand how people can be happy to go to the shop and pay a small amount of money for meat which comes from an animal which was killed, but scream blue murder when someone proposes to make huge amounts of money from killing a species they're not used to eating. If there was a remote amount of damage being done to the crocodiles from a conservation perspective I could understand and would vehemently oppose it, but this will actually help them.

 

[The Rock]

Lets go surfing and think about it.

 

[peterescue]

I cant agree with you two because of who you are but someone else profered the same arguement and I agree with them.

 

[Harry74]

I'm currently doing Wildlife Biology at UNI and have recently learnt that by us clearing the land and installing more watering points that the larger kangaroo are thriving. So in this situation man has helped the larger kangaroos (the grey's and red's) to increase in numbers while destroying the habitats of many other native species. I believe that culling crocs and sharks is not the best way to go about this problem. Part of the reason for these attacks is due to People ignoring warning signs when swimming or from tourist operators baiting the water to try and attract these animals so that people may see. These animals get accostomed to seeing people and expect to be fed whenever they see them. If croc numbers are increasing to unsupportable numbers maybe contraceptive programs need to be put in place. But in the mean time the public need to educated, stop ignoring the signs, and just have some common sense when it comes to swimming where these animals live. After all it is their home not ours.

Harry

 

[herptrader]

For the most part it really is all about preserving suitable habitat. The trick is to determine the right conditions and motivation for preserving it.

 

[Magpie]

I'm currently doing Wildlife Biology at UNI and have recently learnt that by us clearing the land and installing more watering points that the larger kangaroo are thriving. So in this situation man has helped the larger kangaroos (the grey's and red's) to increase in numbers while destroying the habitats of many other native species.

True, which is why we cull several million, yes that's right, million kangaroos a year.
the crocs are also increasing, probably exponentially right now due to the protection they are afforded under law and the fact that we have provided them with lots of extra food sources. Native animals are croc savvy, most ferals aren't. If we do not allow the killing of crocs under any conditions they are gonna make it down to the gold coast in the near future.
Having said that, we do kill crocs. Something like 400 "rogue" crocs are killed per year. These are sold at $10 per foot to croc farms for leather production. So if some rich japanese business man wants to come do the job for us, provide 6 or 7 jobs for a week and pay a few thou for the privelidge, I reckon bring it on.
My personal opinion is that animals are animals. When we provide one set of rules for one native animal, say the crow which is virtually unprotected in most states, then another rule for diferent animals we do ourselves a great mis-service.