Rich hunters snap up croc safaris

[Bluetongue1]

Those who have studied saltwater crocs for many years agree that we could not extirpate them if we tried. The reduction in profitability of hunting was not only as a result of the removal of the largest crocs, but as a result of the remaining crocs becoming gun shy and extremely wary. Add to that the remote locations of many populations. So while the popular belief is that they were hunted to the brink of extinction, the reality is that this was not the case. However this argument was used as leverage to stop hunting and to provide funds for research and is widely accepted as a result. Shooting stopped first in wa in 1969 and then the NT in 1971. The Whitlam government called a 10 year moratorium on the export or import of skins or products in 1972. Qld followed suit (no choice) in banning hunting two tears later. in 40 years we have gone from a situation where highly knowledgeable and talented professional croc hunters struggled to make a living to today's situation where they are to be found in huge numbers across their entire range, there are frequent sightings of big crocs and they are constantly having to be removed from populated areas.

If you are a land owner in the north and have crocs in say a billabong that are suspected of taking cattle or other stock, what do you do? You are not supposed to shoot them and even if you do, next wet some other will take their place. To permanently correct the problem you can get the front-end loader down there and fill in the billabong. This is just one hypothetical. If possible, landowners may well alter the habitat to make it unsuitable for crocs. The safaris are designed to make it economically worthwhile to look after the crocs on their properties and to ensure they maintain their habitat in the process.


Large male crocs dominate their section of river. If they survive the challenges from other males, they can eventually grow to a size where they are too big to be successfully challenged and so continue to grow larger. Their genes have already been passed on. However, because dad got their first in terms of size, no matter how strong the potential challenger is, they cannot win due to the size imbalance. Removal of such a large croc then allows open challenges from would be replacements and selection of the strongest, most aggressive individual. Exactly the same scenario that would happen if the old croc died of natural causes.

Blue

 

[Fuscus]

100% agree. Unfortunately, our socialistic government (ALP) doesn't see it that way.

And those Chardonnay-sipping pinko leftists of the Howard government thought the same way
Canberra rejects croc safari hunting - National - theage.com.au

 

[Darlyn]

And those Chardonnay-sipping pinko leftists of the Howard government thought the same way
Canberra rejects croc safari hunting - National - theage.com.au

Senator Cambell consulted with Steve Irwin on this hence the result.
Blind leading the blind.

 

[mmafan555]

'Dwarfism' is the incorrect term to use and what you are suggesting is not the case. I would agree that the exceptionally large individuals in many populations have been culled as trophies. Where growth continues with age, such as in reptiles, all this does is to alter the age structure of the population. The average size for age remains unchanged as does the average size at which sexual maturity occurs. If you were to calculate the change in average size of a population, you would need to include every living individual and their size. When this is done, for most populations the difference would be totally insignificant. The same is true of animals that have increased growth with age for certain structures, such as tusks and antlers.

For populations such as the saltwater crocodile, where there has been intensive harvesting of all age groups over a substantial period, there will be a significant drop in average length. Once again, this is due to a change in the age structure and not the genetic makeup of the population. If there was any genetic selection going on it might be for animals that are more secretive and wary as a result of their genetic makeup. We know that crocodiles can learn behaviours and becoming wary is one of those learned behaviours. The latter will minimise any effects of the former.

Male crocodiles grow faster than female crocodiles. An average male saltie will mature at around 3.35 m and around 16 years of age. A female will mature at around 2 to 2.3 m after about 12 years. I find this more informative than the term "slow".

I'm not so confident that indeterminate growth protects a species from dwarfism...I get the point you are trying to make but just because a species grows throughout its life doesn't mean that with time all male crocs will be 18ft monsters...I still would think some crocs would be genetically programed to be more aggressive, larger, dominant etc and regardless of indeterminate growth some will get to bigger sizes than others...But I really don't know much about crocodiles and I could be completely wrong...just a thought.

 

[mmafan555]

The main problem with Africa and Asia and most of the world is massive human population. There's comparitavely no-one here.

Africa still has huge populations of iconic animals and the human population situation is not so bad in Southern Africa where most of the impressive animals are most common...West Africa is pretty much done for through and most of the animals are very rare or gone...Most big iconic African animals are secure and have sizable populations (much more so than their Asian counterparts)

The future of Asian animals seems alot less certain...Many iconic animals are already facing extinction and tons of animals are endangered. Plus the human population and population density is unreal over there.

Look at Melville Island (Tiwis), same size as Bali, lush, beautiful and there are 2-3,000 people there. Compared to millions on Bali. (no offense I like Bali). There are vast areas up here that never see a single person in a year. Probably 5% of the Top End is directly accessible by road. Hunting pressure is not going to eliminate anything here.

Thats honestly what draws me the most to Australia...It just feels like their are so many areas of wilderness to explore.....Now don't get me wrong Australian cities are by all accounts some of the best in the world & I would like to go to the ones on the east coast but it's the fact that it's a huge continent with so much wilderness and so little people that interests me the most.... Just seems like thers is a crazy amount of **** still left to explore...and I am a big fan of road trips and just renting a car and exploring...Just the fact that it is so massive but has so much wilderness really interests me....only places that can match it in terms of huge size but so much unpopulated wilderness is Canada and Russia but both are to cold....Alaska also has a huge amount of wilderness with almost no people but it's also way to cold.

 

[SteveNT]

Dr. Graham Webb (renowned croc expert) once said " Give me the navy, the army and the airforce and I couldnt make the crocs extinct". And he meant it, they replaced the labrynthidonts, ate the dinosaurs and will very likely still be here when we are gone.

And nothing can compare with a close up with a really big one when you're in a tinny much smaller than he is. I've been doing it for 30 years but the primal reaction, the instinctive fear is as fresh as the first time. That said I wouldn't hesitate to shoot it if it was stalking my Community. (dont give a rat's about cattle.)

 

[olivehydra]

The main problem with Africa is extreme poverty...Africa is the poorest continent on earth by far....l.

Antarctica cant be that far behind?

 

[solar 17]

Just like the kangaroo you wont get rid of them a few of these southern tree huggars should head north during or just after a good wet and see how accessable most of the top end is or rather is not its a bit different to walking along a river bank looking for hippos or in the back of a vehicle looking for exotic cats.
.......solar 17 (Baden)

 

[SteveNT]

Antarctica cant be that far behind?

the admittedly small population would all have very healthy wallets, and if things go wrong, starvation is the least of your worries.

And it's starting to melt! An entire continent is going to emerge. I'll be long gone but the carve up and the mineral rights are already under intense negotiation.

 

[Sinners121]

i personally think its a great idea by the time a trophy croc becomes a trophy croc it has bred for years and years. it will bring in money for the locals which is always good when their may not be too many job opportunities.

and it has in fact worked in africa as owners realise that they need a constant sustainable supply of animals as otherwise the will loose their lively hoods.

america is also a prime example with numerous animals proving that this works. in a few areas deer are becoming overpopulated because hunting is not allowed. Animal rights organisations wanted to have contraceptive methods done estimated at over $250,000 for the government this is compared to hunters paying money to hunt some of these animals at a sustainable rate.

also keep in mind the majority of hunters are incredibly dedicated to looking after the animals they hunt as they want to be able to continue to do this as they enjoy it. Also the majority of hunters will wait for hours for an animal to move half a meter so they have a proper shot. lets not be misinformed about hunters when their are so many mis-informed about us reptile keepers.

if its sustainable and not endangered i see no problem as it is proven in wealthier countries (and many poorer) to protect the animals.

 

[mmafan555]

Dr. Graham Webb (renowned croc expert) once said " Give me the navy, the army and the airforce and I couldnt make the crocs extinct". And he meant it, they replaced the labrynthidonts, ate the dinosaurs and will very likely still be here when we are gone.

And nothing can compare with a close up with a really big one when you're in a tinny much smaller than he is. I've been doing it for 30 years but the primal reaction, the instinctive fear is as fresh as the first time. That said I wouldn't hesitate to shoot it if it was stalking my Community. (dont give a rat's about cattle.)

I don't know much about evolutionary biology but haven't sharks been around longer than Crocodiles?

Also where would one go to see the largest crocodiles in the wild? Northern Territory or Queensland? Also which rivers have particularly large crocs? If you wanted to photograph a monster sized beast in the wild. where would the best places to go be?

Not that I would ever go looking for Crocs or anythingt but like I said the exploration wildneress part of Australia is what draws me the most.

 

[Darlyn]

I don't know much about evolutionary biology but haven't sharks been around longer than Crocodiles?

Also where would one go to see the largest crocodiles in the wild? Northern Territory or Queensland? Also which rivers have particularly large crocs? If you wanted to photograph a monster sized beast in the wild. where would the best places to go be?

Not that I would ever go looking for Crocs or anythingt but like I said the exploration wildneress part of Australia is what draws me the most.

Hire a houseboat on the Mary River, beautiful scenery, big crocs.

 

[cement]

The guides will do the shooting?

If someone has trekked halfway across the world paid a measly $10k to hunt a croc, does anyone think they might just say at the moment of truth, "hey mate, I'll give you another 10k if you let me take the shot!, in fact I'll tell you what, lets go find a massive croc and I'll double your money again". Its a stupid rule but will work well for the guides. Which won't be a bad thing.

" Of course i shot it, i am the guide aren't I?" Seriously, 10k is chook feed to some of the big game hunters around now. It's a golden opportunity for the locals to get ahead, but I think the government has other agendas in mind for the indigenous people of this land. If the TO's are in their own lands why can't they just do the hunting thing anyway, to heck with the rules and laws?

 

[SteveNT]

They're subject to whitefella law same as you and me. There are exemptions from prosecution for hunting for food but commercial activities have to be negotiated under state and federal legislation.

Double tap is pretty standard in safari hunting.

 

[waruikazi]

They're subject to whitefella law same as you and me. There are exemptions from prosecution for hunting for food but commercial activities have to be negotiated under state and federal legislation.

Double tap is pretty standard in safari hunting.

And zombies.

 

[SteveNT]

I don't know much about evolutionary biology but haven't sharks been around longer than Crocodiles?

Also where would one go to see the largest crocodiles in the wild? Northern Territory or Queensland? Also which rivers have particularly large crocs? If you wanted to photograph a monster sized beast in the wild. where would the best places to go be?

Not that I would ever go looking for Crocs or anythingt but like I said the exploration wildneress part of Australia is what draws me the most.

Yes sharks are older but ?????????

Not telling! Commercial in confidence ha ha.

 

[SteveNT]

zombies? Are they the translucent people on the top floor of universities with white shirts and string ties?

 

[waruikazi]

No they are the people that are dead but not really dead and are set on eating your brains. The double tap is rule number 2, or 4 depending upon who you talk to on surviving a zombie apocolypse. Not sure how it relates to crocs... actually a croc that was tripple tapped tail whipped me once. It hurt pretty bad and knocked me over.

 

[guzzo]

The only one who really needs a croc skull or skin.... is a croc. I know there are reasons for culling them....I just don't see shooting them as a great challange.....perhaps just a knife....like Tarzan!

 

[SteveNT]

Now you're talking! I'd love to see a few millionaires leaping onto big salties with a knife between their teeth! Hahahahaha I'd pay to see that!