Multiple Snakes

[Hamalicious]

So you telling me that my woma is probably gonna die cause I didn't know its a reptile eater, when before buying her I asked about fussy eating womas and all the responses were that I should get him feeding on rats. Now im not a genius by no stretch of the imagination but rodents and reptiles to me are two completely different things. So should my woma be eating rats as first I thought or should I be looking into a lizard/snake feed? You guys keep saying people should do their research, but when we do the answers we get seem to be all over the place.

Sorry mate, i know it's hard. There are a million and one things you can know about reptiles and two million different opinions out there.

Ill try to explain a little better. Basically the Aspidites genus are naturally reptile eaters but they can also eat mammals. In captivity we feed them mammals (rats,mice,rabbits) but because these animals have much higher fat content than reptiles do, we have to be extra careful.

To do this, you have to pick and choose what you feed them. Rodents generally get fatter as they get older, so it is better to feed a few smaller food items rather than one large one, but this only starts to apply once you get to large and extra large rats. In saying this though, even when they are small, it is best to feed them less often than you would a Coastal or Bredli for example.

I hope this helps, i'm sure you're doing a great job, but the more you know, the better keeper you will be.

 

[Skeptic]

Both Aspidites, Woma and Blackheaded, are considered old world pythons and their prefered diet are other snakes as well as reptiles in general. It was one of the first facts I picked up about these stunning snakes and part of their appeal in an odd way that makes me want to have one.

Aspidites are new world pythons as are all Australian pythons.

 

[Brodie]

The only new world boid is the Mexican Burrowing Snake. The rest are boas.

 

[Skeptic]

The only new world boid is the Mexican Burrowing Snake. The rest are boas.

As far as I'm aware, Mexican burrowing snakes don't belong to the family Boidae. They are Loxocemus. Neither do Aspidites, they belong to the pythonidae family.

Old world and new world are geographical terms. Old world is Africa, Europe and Asia. New world is the Americas and Oceania.

 

[Tsubakai]

Its not just the quality of the rats but also womas and blackheads are usually enormous pigs so its easy to overfeed them. Even lean rats will cause obesity if fed in excess of what the animal needs.

 

[KaotikJezta]

As far as I'm aware, Mexican burrowing snakes don't belong to the family Boidae. They are Loxocemus. Neither do Aspidites, they belong to the pythonidae family.

Old world and new world are geographical terms. Old world is Africa, Europe and Asia. New world is the Americas and Oceania.

I think your confused, all of our reptiles are considered old world from what I've read. Here is just one link:

python (snake group) -- Britannica Online Encyclopedia

and another:

San Diego Zoo's Animal Bytes: Python

 

[Brodie]

As far as I'm aware, Mexican burrowing snakes don't belong to the family Boidae. They are Loxocemus. Neither do Aspidites, they belong to the pythonidae family.

Old world and new world are geographical terms. Old world is Africa, Europe and Asia. New world is the Americas and Oceania.

I guess technically Loxocemus is not a python, but it is not a colubrid, elapid, boa or viper either. Most experts lump it with pythons.

I am aware that they are geographical terms. Australia is part of the old world.

Finally, pythonidae is a subfamily of boidae, or at least used to be. My feld guide is old and I honestly can't remember.

 

[KaotikJezta]

I think the confusion lies with the 2 different classifications of Old World and New World, there is the historical classification ie: anything discovered after a certain time is new world, then there is the paleogeographical definition ie: pre and post separation of the continents. When classifying animals the second is used.

 

[Skeptic]

Australia is part of the old world.

Australia is most definitely part of the new world. Sorry I kinda hijacked the thread. I get different snakes out together at times, like when I give them a bit of outside time. However, I only get snakes out together that are around the same size as each other and always keep a close eye on them. I would be a little nervous about having Aspidites and Anteresia out together though.

 

[Brodie]

Australia is most definitely part of the new world. Sorry I kinda hijacked the thread. I get different snakes out together at times, like when I give them a bit of outside time. However, I only get snakes out together that are around the same size as each other and always keep a close eye on them. I would be a little nervous about having Aspidites and Anteresia out together though.

In what context is Australia part of the new world?

 

[Skeptic]

In what context is Australia part of the new world?

Don't take my word for it, google it.

 

[Brodie]

I have?

I just googled it again, and I can find websites that deem it both as new world and old world. Not. Sure what to believe now!

Maybe you taught me something new!

According to this document, Australia is part of the old world. It is one of many. That's why I ask in which context are you referring to Australia as part of the new world. (See jeztas post)

http://www.environment.gov.au/biodi...s/fauna-of-australia/pubs/volume1b/47-ind.pdf

 

[Gruni]

The whole arguement really is... are Womas and BHPs effectively unchanged from the time before continental drift 'Old World' and that is partly because (as I understand it) the fact that they are one of the few snakes in the world that appears to be immune to the effects of any other snake's venom and not just to the venom of snakes in it's natural range. Other than that the above debate is getting very circular. The venom tolerance was one of the things which intrigued me when I first found out about their diet.

Poor Cain seems to have been so overwhelmed by this detour in the thread that he hasn't had anymore to say about his own snakes or even showing them off to us... :lol:

 

[andynic07]

Yes where are the pictures.

 

[Brodie]

Sorry, became a bit self absorbed there.

Pictures of the woma would be nice!

 

[Skeptic]

OK, I promise this will be my last post on the subject I think the confusion on old world v new world is if people lump Australia in with Asia or separate it into Oceania. The term new world first came into use with the discovery of the America's. Australia was discovered by Europeans after that. The consensus seems to be that the new world is made up of the Americas and Oceania. At least that's what I've found.

I also can't find anything on Aspidites being immune to venom other than what appear to be old wives tales. I found a link to an article claiming to have pictures of a Woma being eaten by a Mulga but the link didn't work I also can't find anything on them being here before all our other snakes. If anyone has any info on this with references to studies I'd love to read them as I find the idea fascinating. Sorry again for hijacking the thread.

 

[harlemrain]

Its not just the quality of the rats but also womas and blackheads are usually enormous pigs so its easy to overfeed them. Even lean rats will cause obesity if fed in excess of what the animal needs.

You're telling me lol! My woma would eat 2 rats a day if I'd let him lol, enourmous pigs

 

[Gruni]

There is the root of the confusion Skeptic, you refer to colonisation and discovery where as what we were refering to is paelentology where it refers to continental drift and seperation... ie Gondwana not the Americas etc.

I'll see if I can find out more about the immunity thing from the bloke I found out about it from. I may even start a new thread of some sort.

 

[Cain04]

Haha, Thank you for all the advice guys. One simple question has proved to provide me with heaps to think on and even more to look up and research. As usual you all have proven most helpful. Pics to come, but a while away as camera on the fritz.

 

[Gruni]

Here you go Skeptic, I asked my mate and this was the reply he sent me...

It's a contentious issue as some keepers poo-hoo any idea of it. A researcher Zoltan Takacs has been doing research on snake resistance to venom. There are some papers from UTS on it and there's a guy in Qld uni who has done research who came to uni. I remember reading a paper somewhere a few years ago. Last I heard was a suggestion test were that they were resistant to Cobra. The only link I have in my saved here is http://www.animalark.com.au/pdfs/BlackHeadedPython.pdf but no citation
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