My olives just don't like it c.o.p sizes

[shanesaussie_pythons]

I keep olive pythons and have done for almost 20 years.And have bred several times over the years but it took years of keeping them from hatchlings and at first when they were 2 I put them in a cage about 2and a half meters square but they'd till wouldn't handle or feed regular so we tried different size cages and over the years in smaller and smaller until they settled and begun feeding and just all round they really started to thrive no biting no illnesses and bingo they begun to breed and over the years they grew and bred we had turned this hard to breed not likening to be handled python into a big baby .PET python.now when the new c.o.p sizes came in we built one that size in a friends garage and put one of my 12foot olives in first day looked ak but stayed down in corner day 2 thick mucus in mouth 3 rd day mouth wide open can't breath. So off to vet was told to place it back into its own cage and start medication 3 days time looking better but finished the corse 2 weeks later tried again .and again within 3 nights mouth wide open back to vet this has happened 4 times she has spent nearly 20 years in one cage and she just want except the bigger cage like she has been a magnificent pet over the years not many keepers get them this big or get them to live 20 years I've kept everything and this one was my best snake bar none but now I feel terrible watching her go down hill trying to get her to stay in a place she must be stressed to the max in Why can't she stay we're she likes after 4 try's to get her settled in there new minimum size it may kill her I don't know this seems to be against everything I've learnt over the years .in 20 years she had never bitten but she got me good the 3 rd time I put her in the c.o.p size specified yeah I'm not sure what to do if I keep trying it will kill her or I could send her to a state were they sizes are left up to the keeper who raised and kept her healthy for her life so far.i was also wandering was there ever any olive or record of an olive python either being hurt by a smaller cage or even any negative effect anyway il try one more time but not till spring anyone else haveing problems let us know shane

 

[RedFox]

There is a clause in the new COP rules that says, something along the lines of Reptile are to be kept in cages that at least meet the minimum sizes unless recommended otherwise by a vet. I am on my phone right now bit will find the actual clause when I get home.

So what you could do is get your local herp vet to sign off on you keeping that particular olive in her normal cage for health reasons. If you ever get inspected then you would have to produce that note and direct any questions to the vet that signed off on it.

If she is that stressed from being upsized I wouldny recommend freighting her to an unfamiliar home interstate.

 

[ronhalling]

Is there any reason you cannot add height to her original enclosure to bring it up to code using the back wall measurement, even if you just have a hole for her to climb up into the top of it, she might be more accepting of modifying her own enclosure instead of moving her into somewhere strange, (if you can't get a vet to sign off on the health reason of course) so that a continueous measurement can be made keep the shelf away from the back wall by the distance measured at her widest point, it might just make the difference for her and that way you will both be happy. ....................................Ron

 

[=bECS=]

Just get your vet to sign off on it and keep her where she is happy and content

 

[RSPcrazy]

Is there any reason you cannot add height to her original enclosure to bring it up to code using the back wall measurement, even if you just have a hole for her to climb up into the top of it, she might be more accepting of modifying her own enclosure instead of moving her into somewhere strange, (if you can't get a vet to sign off on the health reason of course) so that a continueous measurement can be made keep the shelf away from the back wall by the distance measured at her widest point, it might just make the difference for her and that way you will both be happy. ....................................Ron

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm under the impression, that you can't add hight or depth to an enclosure, to compensate for not having a long enough enclosure?

I have always added more hight and depth to my enclosures, to compensate for not having the room for many long enclosures. Eg. My enclosure sizes for adult jungles are 750mm Long x 750mm High x 600mm Deep.
From what I can work out from this COP, is a adult jungle (or D class python) needs to be housed in an enclosure 1250mm Long x 500mm Deep, but gives no measurements for hight. Meaning MOST my enclosures don't comply with the COP, even though I have compensated for not having long enclosures.

I have been keeping reptiles for many years and personally feel the size enclosures I'm using, has plenty of room to keep my pythons happy. I very rarely see them use the whole enclosure anyway.

 

[ronhalling]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm under the impression, that you can't add hight or depth to an enclosure, to compensate for not having a long enough enclosure?

I have always added more hight and depth to my enclosures, to compensate for not having the room for many long enclosures. Eg. My enclosure sizes for adult jungles are 750mm Long x 750mm High x 600mm Deep.
From what I can work out from this COP, is a adult jungle (or D class python) needs to be housed in an enclosure 1250mm Long x 500mm Deep, but gives no measurements for hight. Meaning MOST my enclosures don't comply with the COP, even though I have compensated for not having long enclosures.

I have been keeping reptiles for many years and personally feel the size enclosures I'm using, has plenty of room to keep my pythons happy. I very rarely see them use the whole enclosure anyway.

This was just to make a compromise so that the OP's Olive could stay in it's original enclosure without causing undue stress and at the same time try and bring the enclosures size within the guidelines of the COP ........................................Ron

 

[Jacknife]

I'm more of the opinion that your Olive's illness has nothing to do with the size of the enclosure, but perhaps a reaction to a material/compound/residue in the new enclosure or a recently contracted illness...
Because basically you're describing the symptoms of R.I. and if the animal is 20 years old this just exacerbates the the situation - it could just naturally be on the way out...

 

[andynic07]

I'm more of the opinion that your Olive's illness has nothing to do with the size of the enclosure, but perhaps a reaction to a material/compound/residue in the new enclosure or a recently contracted illness...
Because basically you're describing the symptoms of R.I. and if the animal is 20 years old this just exacerbates the the situation - it could just naturally be on the way out...

RI is a bacterial infection and stress is one of the biggest triggers for RI. Stress of a new enclosure can suppress a snakes immune system allowing the bacterial infection to take hold.

 

[Monitor Madness]

From what I can work out from this COP, is a adult jungle (or D class python) needs to be housed in an enclosure 1250mm Long x 500mm Deep, but gives no measurements for hight. Meaning MOST my enclosures don't comply with the COP, even though I have compensated for not having long enclosures.

I have been keeping reptiles for many years and personally feel the size enclosures I'm using, has plenty of room to keep my pythons happy. I very rarely see them use the whole enclosure anyway.

I just checked the code I have and unless something's changed its got jungles as a C class python requiring a surface area of 0.4m squared.

They are classed as climbers so you can use the back or floor surface area.

Your floor surface area is 0.45m squared and your back wall surface area is 0.5625 and as long as the snake doesn't get any bigger than 2.5 metres they should be fine from the way I see it. The reason the snake can't get any bigger that 2.5m is due too the reference of point 4.3.1.1 in the code.

Just double check for yourself in case I'm missing something but you should be fine.

Here is a link too a spreadsheet saximus made its really helpful.

http://www.aussiepythons.com/forum/...op-spreadsheet-final-version-finished-205801/

 

[RSPcrazy]

I just checked the code I have and unless something's changed its got jungles as a C class python requiring a surface area of 0.4m squared.

They are classed as climbers so you can use the back or floor surface area.

Your floor surface area is 0.45m squared and your back wall surface area is 0.5625 and as long as the snake doesn't get any bigger than 2.5 metres they should be fine from the way I see it. The reason the snake can't get any bigger that 2.5m is due too the reference of point 4.3.1.1 in the code.

Just double check for yourself in case I'm missing something but you should be fine.

Here is a link too a spreadsheet saximus made its really helpful.

http://www.aussiepythons.com/forum/...op-spreadsheet-final-version-finished-205801/

Thanks for that.
Yes you're right, a jungle is class C, I was reading the wrong line on the COP.

Maths isn't really my strong point and I've never had to use m2 before. Everything has to be in mm or cm, or I get lost. So even though saximus's spreadsheet is very useful, I still can't get my head around what sizes are needed?

I'm under the impression, that if I type 0.6 under Width (m), 0.75 under Length (m) and 0.75 under Hight (m). Then I've just entered, 600mm Wide x 750mm Long x 750mm High. Is that correct?

 

[longqi]

Cant you put the olives old hides in the new enclosure?
She should just snuggle straight into them??

 

[Monitor Madness]

Thanks for that.
Yes you're right, a jungle is class C, I was reading the wrong line on the COP.

Maths isn't really my strong point and I've never had to use m2 before. Everything has to be in mm or cm, or I get lost. So even though saximus's spreadsheet is very useful, I still can't get my head around what sizes are needed?

I'm under the impression, that if I type 0.6 under Width (m), 0.75 under Length (m) and 0.75 under Hight (m). Then I've just entered, 600mm Wide x 750mm Long x 750mm High. Is that correct?

Yep that's correct.

 

[RSPcrazy]

Yep that's correct.

Awesome, thanks.

So most my tanks do comply then. It's just my 2 Olives, 2 Bredli's, 3 Lacies and 1 Spencer's tanks that don't comply, and by the looks of things, I'm going to need a second house to keep them in, if I'm going to be able to keep them anymore.

 

[Shaggz]

what if you put the Olives current enclosure inside an enclosure that meets C.O.P and leave a door open just enough for the Olive to have free access to both enclosures yet not being forced into the bigger one

 

[Pitttownboy]

How does it work if you keep multiple animals together, ie I have 13 diamonds and a few jungles in the one enclosure

 

[Rogue5861]

How does it work if you keep multiple animals together, ie I have 13 diamonds and a few jungles in the one enclosure

Percentage based. I think it's 20% per addition animal.


Rick

 

[saintanger]

How does it work if you keep multiple animals together, ie I have 13 diamonds and a few jungles in the one enclosure

i would not be keeping that many pythons in one enclosure, they will most likely eat each other or fight during breeding season.

you have to go by largest python so that would be 0.625m2 + 50% for 2, + 20% for every one after that. so it would be 0.625m2 + 310% = 2.5625m2

correct me if i am wrong

 

[saintanger]

Percentage based. I think it's 20% per addition animal.


Rick

An enclosure housing two snakes must be at least 50% larger than the minimum enclosure size plus 20% for every additional snake.

 

[Rogue5861]

An enclosure housing two snakes must be at least 50% larger than the minimum enclosure size plus 20% for every additional snake.

Ah sorry, thought that was just lizards with the 50% extra for first additional.


Rick

 

[saintanger]

nah its snakes too, only turtles are 20% for each additional one.