Question 3: String him up it will teach him a lesson.

[glebo]

Hello again - thanks for all those who are responding. This is my third f five questions and I can see there is some debate and consternation.

I was at an expo in Queensland a few years ago and there were a few thousand patrons there including the Parks and Wildlife Service. This Expo had been running very successfully for a few years and each year the conditions of the expo permit were becoming more extreme. In fact the year that I am talking about the expo was split into two sections, one that allowed the display of critters and the sale of everything except wildlife, and the other section with a separate address that allowed the sale of critters. This outlines a series of crazy stuff on its own, however at one stage in the day a young fellow who would have been around 13 and not a herp or connected with herps that anyone could figure out arrived at the expo. He had been dropped off by mum and was keen to immerse himself in his passion in life – reptiles. He had a bit of a problem though because on the way to the expo he had found his first ever ‘wild’ reptile. In fact he had picked up a bluetongue lizard from the middle of the road and was proud as punch that he had ‘saved’ it from death by car. He was, as a first duty in getting t the expo asking anyone he could see in authority how he could deal with it. He was completely naïve and just seeking answers to this question. Well I saw two things happen. First some of the herpers he asked turned a nasty shade of white and tried to distance themselves from this poor kid. Then as predicted the ‘authorities’ got wind of the kid with the illegal reptile and moved in. They wanted to grill him and had just started when a few people stepped in to help, including the mayor of the city and I think the opposition spokesperson for Parks and Wildlife and others. Where is this young fellow now and what are his feelings toward helping native fauna and particularly reptiles - I don’t know, but the experience may have changed his passion.

From the above moderately common occurrence this is my question: From some of the answers to the two questions I have asked on this forum some/many of us see ourselves as criminals who cannot be trusted with wildlife! Surely as in the above case shouldn’t Parks also view us as criminals and no matter which state, shouldn’t they uphold the laws as they stand on reptiles no matter what the intentions of people trying to ‘save’ native fauna?

Regards
Gavin Bedford

 

[Pauls_Pythons]

Maybe they could start by prosecuting people who blatantly kill snakes and other reptiles

 

[champagne]

most of us caught and kept blue tongues, bearded dragons and carpet pythons ect as kids. More reptiles are killed from habitat destruction then a few thousand people keeping wild caught reptiles or reptiles off license.

 

[Pitttownboy]

Why do you need a licence for an animal u can buy from a pet shop. Would a few people here and there taking blue tongues or beardies from the wild (like we did for twenty yrs prior to amnesty) affect native populations enough to declare it a crime punishable by imprisonment. Would we in the hobby care for and house our animals differently whether they were wild caught or captive bred, if you needed a licence and had to pay a fee each year would people still have budgies and parrots, where does our licence fee go, is it spent back in the reptile area. Would it reduce or increase the price of certain animals if wild caught was available. If you do save an animal on a construction site should we relocate it into an unfamiliar area and genetically different animals or introduce it into our hobby/pet trade

 

[Ramsayi]

Why do you need a licence for an animal u can buy from a pet shop. Would a few people here and there taking blue tongues or beardies from the wild (like we did for twenty yrs prior to amnesty) affect native populations enough to declare it a crime punishable by imprisonment. Would we in the hobby care for and house our animals differently whether they were wild caught or captive bred, if you needed a licence and had to pay a fee each year would people still have budgies and parrots, where does our licence fee go, is it spent back in the reptile area. Would it reduce or increase the price of certain animals if wild caught was available. If you do save an animal on a construction site should we relocate it into an unfamiliar area and genetically different animals or introduce it into our hobby/pet trade

I'm not quite sure what you mean with your post.Are you of the opinion that you should be able to take from the wild indiscriminately?

If it was open slather then it wouldn't be a few people here and there.It would be open season taking anything and everything that people could get their hands on to make a quick buck.You would also have others who would go after the rarer type species to make even more money perhaps even to the detriment of those species.

 

[Pitttownboy]

How would it be open slaver, how would you make a quick buck, if its common its cheap if its easy to catch then its cheap hence not worthwhile spending money to catch them. Most people want hatchies or juvies how many juvies have you caught. What rarer types are you meaning, maybe GTP well there not easy for everyone to go catch, maybe u mean coastals there $50 what's the point, if they allowed collection and some Oenpelliensis were found would this be good or bad in your book. Before amnesty those that wanted reptiles wild caught them and I didn't see any extinctions due to hobbyists

 

[mcloughlin2]

How would it be open slaver, how would you make a quick buck, if its common its cheap if its easy to catch then its cheap hence not worthwhile spending money to catch them. Most people want hatchies or juvies how many juvies have you caught. What rarer types are you meaning, maybe GTP well there not easy for everyone to go catch, maybe u mean coastals there $50 what's the point, if they allowed collection and some Oenpelliensis were found would this be good or bad in your book. Before amnesty those that wanted reptiles wild caught them and I didn't see any extinctions due to hobbyists

The market price for reptiles is now much higher then back 30 years ago. Sure it isn't your average hobbiest that will go collecting GTPs in the wild but someone with the know-how going on a collecting trip could decimate local populations. I don't know where you come from (financially wise) but any reptile at $50 a pop would sound good to me. That's about double what your average Joe earns an hour. Certainly in the right areas finding a coastal every couple of hours wouldn't be too far fetched and you're doing what you love.

 

[Pitttownboy]

What stops people doing it now, if I own two coastals and I go collecting and find 13 then I add to my licence as though I bred them then I sell them all for fifty bucks in two weeks time, on your licence you don't need there age or there sex just there genus therefore when I sell u a coastal its just minus one specimen not a certain one, a loop hole they need to close

 

[mcloughlin2]

It just makes things that little bit harder, for instance good luck trying to catch any number of hatchling coastals.

 

[Pitttownboy]

That's my point what we have now came from the wild, there is already excess to pet trade requirements so stopping licences doesn't mean rape and pillage of bush. The bird industry no longer has mass licences of every species and I can't recall the last time I saw someone in the bush catching budgies

 

[champagne]

we aren't talking about rare reptiles or allowing people to take wild reptiles legally we are talking about kids catching local common reptiles....

 

[Pitttownboy]

Kids catching local specimens is the same as wild caught, they are both at present illegal

 

[Pauls_Pythons]

Kids catching local specimens is the same as wild caught, they are both at present illegal

Of course you are correct but could there be an attachment to the legislation that if this was done without malice or intent an under age child could be exempt from prosecution?

 

[andynic07]

I find it very hard to believe that the powers to be would try to prosecute a kid for catching a wild reptile when there is so many easy adult targets around that they do nothing about. I think I am erring on Pittownboy's side of this discussion as well, what is the harm?

 

[GeckoJosh]

How would it be open slaver, how would you make a quick buck, if its common its cheap if its easy to catch then its cheap hence not worthwhile spending money to catch them. Most people want hatchies or juvies how many juvies have you caught. What rarer types are you meaning, maybe GTP well there not easy for everyone to go catch, maybe u mean coastals there $50 what's the point, if they allowed collection and some Oenpelliensis were found would this be good or bad in your book. Before amnesty those that wanted reptiles wild caught them and I didn't see any extinctions due to hobbyists

There are rare reptiles that are worth money and are much easier to get to than your two examples!

 

[Skeptic]

The little bugger should have been shot at dawn along with his parents! He should have left the animal in it's natural habitat - the freeway. I understand this was just one boy with just one lizard but if everyone pulled an animal off the road, what are we left with? A road without roadkill?? That's not a world I want to live in!

 

[borntobnude]

Yes as a youngster my brother and I would catch, keep for a few months observe ,and release beardies and blue's . We were in constant letter contact with Eric Worrel at the Gosford reptile park and even made a few trips (every time we visited our grandparents, sometimes weekly ) .to see him and gain knowledge -which he and the many staff were always happy to give . Now we have snakes and lizards inside with a colony of bluetongues outside living wild that have been here since we bought the house . The only time we handle these blues is if the are in life threatening situations -ie bird, dog or car attacks (not our dog) . Then we clean them up feed them and release them back to the yard .
Criminal behaviour ?? maybe , but through the guidance of experienced keepers ,Me, my brother and several friends and neighbours learned to keep and maintain lizards , and this has followed through to our children and brushed off on to some of their friends and relatives

Maybe they are chasing the real criminals trapping and selling, smuggling our rarer herps that's why you Don't get inspected in your house every year ??? I hope so !!!!

 

[borntobnude]

The little bugger should have been shot at dawn along with his parents! He should have left the animal in it's natural habitat - the freeway. I understand this was just one boy with just one lizard but if everyone pulled an animal off the road, what are we left with? A road without roadkill?? That's not a world I want to live in!

And there ends the history of the history of "The RoadKill Café, You Kill It , We Grill It " :lol:

 

[pythonmum]

Back to the question, which seems to be getting lost here...

Should wildlife authorities enforce the laws regardless of the circumstances and intentions of the person who has 'caught' the reptiles?

short answer: no

Long answer:
I can easily imagine the kerfuffle caused by this boy and his rescued bluetongue. I suspect that he got a harder time from those who had to spend hours on paperwork just to be there than he would have gotten from the wildlife authorities. I would also like to point out that he was an unaccompanied minor, so the authorities and others had no right to come down hard on him for a harmless action that hurt no one.

I don't think that those who administer the regulations are out to monster children who know nothing about reptile keeping. (Perhaps some who write the ridiculous codes feel differently.) Someone should have had the sense to compliment the boy on his caring attitude and then tell him about wildlife rescue groups, as well as give him info on reptile keeping.

The regulations which govern reptile keeping are increasingly complex and there is no consistency between states. The experience in NSW has been very frustrating because the people impacted by legislation were shut out of the final and most important stages when these were formulated. Those who go to the effort of following all regulations become frustrated and frazzled, especially when others give up and 'go off book'.

There are powerful lobbies that want to control animal keeping for many reasons. The most extreme of these believe that it is wrong to keep any captive animal, including farm animals and your pet dog. These extremists are gaining more of a voice. Others seem to view any animal as a potentially deadly threat, hence the attempts at breed-specific legislation for dogs. Although the vast majority of captive reptiles are totally harmless, the scared group still feels threatened by them, as they are not fluffy and conventionally 'cute'. The reptile hobby is impacted greatly by the misguided conservationists who think that the keeping of captive reptiles should be regulated for conservation reasons. Those who work in zoos and wild animal parks know about the careful stud books kept for endangered animals and the importance of managed breeding programs. This is totally irrelevant to the captive reptile hobby, but they don't seem to realise that.

The legislative control of reptile keeping is increasingly ridiculous. We need to get behind our professional societies and present a united front. Coming down hard on kids with lizards will get us nowhere, although it may be a way of venting frustration with the paperwork....

 

[richoman_3]

parks people tell others off who interfere with wildlife are just jealous they cant find them themselves and just want to look like theyre doing their job... some of them really annoy me!