R.I.P. water dragons

[Notorious_Guf]

Not everyone has a clear understanding of how children work either. Is it ok when people lock there kids in the car while they "just duck into the shops" on a 35 degree day? But dont worry they can be replaced so it doesnt matter if they have a gruesome end to their life? But, because you can easily replace a water dragon, lets just tell the guy to "try again".

People should have a slear understanding of what their reptile requires and if they dont they shouldnt have them.

I dont think anyone has said anything harsh at all in this thread. I had expected people to be a lot harsher. Magruber did a stupid thing. shall we all just sit back and say poor magruber? IMO, there is probably alot of detail that was left out, such as the length of time that these poor guys were left out in the sun in a BUCKET for.....

You can't compare human life to an animals life, for many reasons, however as an adult caring for a child, you have a much more maternal instinct as to whats right or wrong in care. In much the same way an animal caring for it's young would also have the same instincts. As a human caring for an animal, you don't have this instinct. Many people would see a reptile as something that needs heat to be active, they would see them basking in the sun in the wild & not think any further than that. In my opinion, it is an easy mistake to make if you have not done your research before acquiring your animal. We all know that people don't always research before buying a pet & we all would agree that they should. This person obviously hasn't & his mistake will hopefully serve to help other people, who are doing their research, not to make the same mistake.

Calling someone a Murderer, when it was not intentional is Harsh!

 

[Sezzzzzzzzz]

As a reptile keeper (or keeper of any animal), we are trusted with these animals lives, so therefore, exactly the same as a parent, we have to find out what is best for them. And the best way to find that out is to research, not to let them cook, and then say oh bad luck.

All it would have taken, if he couldnt find the answer himself, is a thread on here asking "is it safe to put my water dragons in a bucket out in the sun with no shade on a 35 degree day". He would have been met with resounding "No's" and known not to. Instead he didnt ask, didnt try to find out and he cooked his pets, and now wants sympathy.

as i said before. common sense tells you that you dont put any animal in a confined space in extreme heat without somewhere that they can hide. This is why when we set up their enclosures, we provide hot ends and cool ends and hides and such, so the animal can choose where it needs to be.

 

[Notorious_Guf]

As a reptile keeper (or keeper of any animal), we are trusted with these animals lives, so therefore, exactly the same as a parent, we have to find out what is best for them. And the best way to find that out is to research, not to let them cook, and then say oh bad luck.

All it would have taken, if he couldnt find the answer himself, is a thread on here asking "is it safe to put my water dragons in a bucket out in the sun with no shade on a 35 degree day". He would have been met with resounding "No's" and known not to. Instead he didnt ask, didnt try to find out and he cooked his pets, and now wants sympathy.

as i said before. common sense tells you that you dont put any animal in a confined space in extreme heat without somewhere that they can hide. This is why when we set up their enclosures, we provide hot ends and cool ends and hides and such, so the animal can choose where it needs to be.

As I said, everyone would agree that researching your animal before buying is the correct thing to do. Not everyone does, some people get given animals as gifts with no prior knowledge.

You are presuming he has come here for sympathy. Rather than seeing anyone who makes mistakes in a negative way, try to take a positive out of it. Think of all the young people, or new keepers who have never used a forum before, seeing this on the first page on the forums & therefore learning not to do it themselves. Not everyone knows how to search for information, or ask the right questions. Not everyone thinks that certain things could be the wrong thing to do & not everyone reading this forum is a member & wants to or has the ability to ask questions. Some would be frightened to ask for help, for fear that they would be called an idiot for asking, told to search for the answer or be called a murderer for making a mistake.

 

[Sezzzzzzzzz]

Id rather ask a stupid question then kill or possibly injure my animal. There is no stupid questions when it comes to a living thing.

and as far as being worried about asking a question for fear of being called an idiot and being told to search, for every 1 member that may say this there is another 20 that are willing to answer questions. (and ive checked, the person in question has no problems asking questions).

 

[ricky_91]

only put your animals out for sun when its a bit sunny not beaming down and get them a flex mesh cage and put a bowl over half of it so half shade half sun and plenty of water on the shade side

 

[Gecko :)]

I am sorry for the loss of your Water Dragons,. very tragic & you are no doubt feeling awful about your mistake.

Come on guys,. no need to be so nasty !

 

[Waterrat]

Sorry to hear that.
Someone local did exctly the same with a yearling GTP he bought from me. Put it out on the lawn in a click-clack, went to clean the cage and when he returned the container was in full sun and the snake dead. Imagine how he felt. I know it's of no consolation to you but these things happen, I cooked 10 tiger snakes in the boot of my car once, Grrr!

 

[Feurety]

i have to agree with most .. if your to dumb to use common sense or ask a simple question ... you deserve to be stuffed in a bucket out in the sun yourself. Try having a pet goldfish this time (cold water ... NOT hot water) ...

 

[ricky_91]

you do learn from your mistakes

 

[Waterrat]

i have to agree with most .. if your to dumb to use common sense or ask a simple question what question?... you deserve to be stuffed in a bucket out in the sun yourself. Try having a pet goldfish this time (cold water ... NOT hot water) ...

Gee, 27 years old you have never made a mistake or a dumb decision. You are genius but you just don't know what's ahead of you.

 

[Monitor_Keeper]

Wow some member of APS can be so cruel, you are treating this person as if they did it on purpose... accidents happen and they are obviously distressed from losing two close to heart animals

RIP water dragons

 

[souldoubt]

You can't compare human life to an animals life, for many reasons, however as an adult caring for a child, you have a much more maternal instinct as to whats right or wrong in care. In much the same way an animal caring for it's young would also have the same instincts. As a human caring for an animal, you don't have this instinct. Many people would see a reptile as something that needs heat to be active, they would see them basking in the sun in the wild & not think any further than that. In my opinion, it is an easy mistake to make if you have not done your research before acquiring your animal. We all know that people don't always research before buying a pet & we all would agree that they should. This person obviously hasn't & his mistake will hopefully serve to help other people, who are doing their research, not to make the same mistake.

Calling someone a Murderer, when it was not intentional is Harsh!

Could I ask what makes an animals life or suffering so insignificant compared to human life/suffering? because to be honest I've never understood this mindset. To me it seems to be a statement that's commonly used to excuse or justify any cruel experience that an animal has suffered (be it intentional or unintentional).
I also dont buy this "stronger parental instinct" argument at all - I dont even want kids and I never leave ANY of my pets unattended in cars, direct sunlight etc.

Magruba, I would have to agree with most that putting them in the sun in a bucket was a stupid idea, but I am glad to see some remorse from you so I doubt it will happen again.

 

[Masonwells]

When it comes to asking a simple question on APS, I have seen some very outrages reply's. "Use the search on the top if this page" or "have you tried google". Obviously people would like a quick simple answer of people that are in the know, it's nice to get information from people rather than read 10 different opinions from the USA.

I'm very sorry to hear about your loss.

 

[Notorious_Guf]

Could I ask what makes an animals life or suffering so insignificant compared to human life/suffering? because to be honest I've never understood this mindset. To me it seems to be a statement that's commonly used to excuse or justify any cruel experience that an animal has suffered (be it intentional or unintentional).
I also dont buy this "stronger parental instinct" argument at all - I dont even want kids and I never leave ANY of my pets unattended in cars, direct sunlight etc.

Magruba, I would have to agree with most that putting them in the sun in a bucket was a stupid idea, but I am glad to see some remorse from you so I doubt it will happen again.

First of all you can't be unintentionally cruel, cruel by definition is willingly or knowingly causing pain or distress of others.

I have lived a life where I have learnt from mistakes, such as getting sun burnt or not being able to breathe underwater. These mistakes in turn help you understand how the human body works, allowing you to make informed decisions about caring for a child or other human being.

An animal has different body functions & operations. Some animals can breathe underwater or can tolerate much higher heat for example. As a human, you have not personally experienced what an animal can & can't tolerate. If you have done zero research on a lizard before acquiring one (as a kid, I'm sure many of you caught a lizard with no understanding of it's husbandry) then how are you to know that leaving a lizard in the sun, is the wrong thing to do, considering that there is every chance you have only ever seen a lizard in the wild, basking on a rock in direct sunlight?

As a kid I caught a bunch of bees in a butterfly catcher, left it out in the sun for 20 mins or so & they all died. This was unintentional & I learned from my mistakes. Should I have done research on how to care for these bees before attempting to catch them? I quickly learned to never do it again!

As for your animal vs human life question, I refuse to answer it as it is off topic & will no doubt turn into a creation vs evolution argument. I was purely stating that you can't compare a human caring for a human child against a human caring for an animal of a different species.

 

[Magruber]

I always stay with my lizards when there outside it just happened so fast.
Thanks every one who was mature about this thread and thanks everone else for your two cents worth. I pretty sure I'm aware I killed them but you should probably tell me a few more time if I don't already know

 

[souldoubt]

First of all you can't be unintentionally cruel, cruel by definition is willingly or knowingly causing pain or distress of others.

I have lived a life where I have learnt from mistakes, such as getting sun burnt or not being able to breathe underwater. These mistakes in turn help you understand how the human body works, allowing you to make informed decisions about caring for a child or other human being.

An animal has different body functions & operations. Some animals can breathe underwater or can tolerate much higher heat for example. As a human, you have not personally experienced what an animal can & can't tolerate. If you have done zero research on a lizard before acquiring one (as a kid, I'm sure many of you caught a lizard with no understanding of it's husbandry) then how are you to know that leaving a lizard in the sun, is the wrong thing to do, considering that there is every chance you have only ever seen a lizard in the wild, basking on a rock in direct sunlight?

As a kid I caught a bunch of bees in a butterfly catcher, left it out in the sun for 20 mins or so & they all died. This was unintentional & I learned from my mistakes. Should I have done research on how to care for these bees before attempting to catch them? I quickly learned to never do it again!

As for your animal vs human life question, I refuse to answer it as it is off topic & will no doubt turn into a creation vs evolution argument. I was purely stating that you can't compare a human caring for a human child against a human caring for an animal of a different species.

Shall I replace "cruel" with "undesirable" just to sort out any misunderstanding - the term was simply used to indicate that, overheating (although it may not be intentional) is a painful way to die.

I'm sure you would agree someone should not own an animal when they have not done any prior research about that species.
Animal ethics (for research purposes) standards basically say that unless it can be proven otherwise you should assume an animal feels what a human in the same situation feels, I think that someone who hasn't done their research or cant find an answer to their question about their chosen species of pet should also act this way.
Using this case as an example, learning not to put animals in the sun in a bucket by overheating them is NOT an optimal method of education. You can find this out quite easily, or assume by commonsense what the outcome is likely to be.

This is a general opinion of mine Magruber, I'm not at all intending to single you out.

 

[Wookie]

Whoever said it is an easy mistake to make or he didn't have a clear understanding; what a crock! Just my opinion but shouldn't you understand PRIOR to buying the animal?

 

[junglemac]

You don't have kids, but if I had to choose to save either a human or a reptile I would always choose the person in distress.

Could I ask what makes an animals life or suffering so insignificant compared to human life/suffering? because to be honest I've never understood this mindset. To me it seems to be a statement that's commonly used to excuse or justify any cruel experience that an animal has suffered (be it intentional or unintentional).
I also dont buy this "stronger parental instinct" argument at all - I dont even want kids and I never leave ANY of my pets unattended in cars, direct sunlight etc.

Magruba, I would have

 

[Shotta]

woah sorry about your Dragons man
could've happened to anyone

 

[Reptar859]

Wow, harsh!

Sorry to hear about your Dragons! I think it's great that you came here to tell people of your mistake, as you will no doubt help other inexperienced keepers, or people thinking of keeping reptiles, to not make the same mistake.

Not everyone has a clear understanding of how reptiles work. People come here in search of information & mistakes are often the best way to learn. I knew someone who had kept a bearded dragon years ago & didn't realise it needed UV lighting & that they don't always drink from a water bowl. Theirs died while they were away for a few days, but they learnt their lesson & went seeking for an answer. Thus learning more about the animals they too love.

Had to reply to this. My baby Black Soils dont drink from their dish yet. We all needed to go away for a couple of days ( got home today). I went and bought a small plastic enclosure with a vented lid. Because i was depending on sunlight to keep my guys warm the first thing packed was the battery operated thermometer the uv light was taken just incase because of the size of the enclosure i wasnt to keen on using it. A few sprays of water each day and never leaving them without a pair of eyes on the temps and i have two happy dragons. But i must admit it was a stressful time for me I love my guys and would hate for anything to happen to them.