So, hypothetically speaking, if a dragon wasn't stressed, had the right enclosure setup and correct temperatures, was fed well on the correct diet and not over-crowded - you could just chuck out the UV bulb and they would thrive regardless?
Raising beardies without UV?
- Thread starter Miss B
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JasonL
Almost Legendary
The beardies probably could get a little too close to it, though it was 30cm from Basking site, they could still get within 15cm of it by climbing on a log. How far from the light does the UV output last? not much further than 30cm.
JasonL
Almost Legendary
Mine were.
I thought 60cm would be a minimum for a Mercury Vapour, all things seen and heard I would guess 30cm for a Compact 10 with a reflector. A lot of the buzz around these globes indicate that the UV output propagation is more like a Mercury Vapour then a tube (i.e. a lot more focussed and directed).
Ive had beardies 30 cm froma 100 W MVB and 20 cm from a 10% compact fluro (with shroud) and none of them had any eye problems. I am now trying one of the mega ray 60W MVBs and so far no eye problems even though they have enormous UVB output (or so it is claimed)
Just found the info that I had come across before:
http://www.uvguide.co.uk/phototherapyphosphor-summary.htm#responses
I think overall the lesson from this discussion is that UV is not a silver bullet for MBD and that the entire spectrum of your husbandry practices should be considered when thinking about this (pun intended
).
CodeRed, it's interesting to hear those results. Not sure whether I'd want to do that with many other critters
http://www.uvguide.co.uk/phototherapyphosphor-summary.htm#responses
I think overall the lesson from this discussion is that UV is not a silver bullet for MBD and that the entire spectrum of your husbandry practices should be considered when thinking about this (pun intended
).CodeRed, it's interesting to hear those results. Not sure whether I'd want to do that with many other critters
JasonL
Almost Legendary
As far as I know, the tubes are problem free, it's mainly the compacs that are causing the problems.
Sunlight
Its seems that there are a few schools of thought on this topic so it is hard to provide a definative answer.
I think that providing your dragons with at least some natural sunlight as often as possible would provide the best outcome in respect to successful husbandry.
I volunteered at Taronga Zoo in the early nineties when they had recently acquired some fijian banded and crested iguanas. They kept them in quite large and airy indoor enclosures under UV lights and despite their best efforts they could not stimulate any courtship or mating activity. One morning the lizards were place in outdoor sunning cages and within a few minutes the males began displaying courting behaviour and I can't recall but i think this was the beginning of a successful breeding programme. It seems that there really is nothing a lizard likes more than fresh air and sunlight.
Its seems that there are a few schools of thought on this topic so it is hard to provide a definative answer.
I think that providing your dragons with at least some natural sunlight as often as possible would provide the best outcome in respect to successful husbandry.
I volunteered at Taronga Zoo in the early nineties when they had recently acquired some fijian banded and crested iguanas. They kept them in quite large and airy indoor enclosures under UV lights and despite their best efforts they could not stimulate any courtship or mating activity. One morning the lizards were place in outdoor sunning cages and within a few minutes the males began displaying courting behaviour and I can't recall but i think this was the beginning of a successful breeding programme. It seems that there really is nothing a lizard likes more than fresh air and sunlight.
swampie
Very Well-Known Member
I have always used 12v 50 watt diachronic downlights without the glass cover on for beardies and they thrive. I have raised them from hatchling to adults and haven't had any problems, they also seem to display their colours better under the diachronic as opposed to other light sources i have tried.
swampie
Very Well-Known Member
Yeah MissB just the downlights. I don't use heat lamps either when using the downlights, as the downlights put out enough heat on their own.
I dont use uvb light with mine, I dont have any problems . I dust just about evey meal with calcium and over summer put them out side for a few hours a day, I find this brings out their colours more. In winter I havent been outting them outside but will be this year. I found if I didnt dust with calcium they did start to get the signs of MBD, so now just about every meal gets a dust.
Jason when u werent using UVB lights were you dusting with calcium.
Jason when u werent using UVB lights were you dusting with calcium.
That's really interesting.
So... the thing I still can't quite get my head around, is that there are so many new keepers whose beardies are suffering MBD. Could it be that there is something lacking in their setup, other than UV? It can't just be the UV, not if there are other people raising beardies without it.
My brain hurts :lol:
So... the thing I still can't quite get my head around, is that there are so many new keepers whose beardies are suffering MBD. Could it be that there is something lacking in their setup, other than UV? It can't just be the UV, not if there are other people raising beardies without it.
My brain hurts :lol:
JasonL
Almost Legendary
That's really interesting.[/quote]
My Beardies do 90% of their breeding on the floor of my granny flat, they will breed in their enclosures, but go nuts when they have some running space, when I put them outside in their aviary they freak out a bit and stop. It comes down to finding out what makes them happy, my dragons have been largly raised indoors and feel safer indoors, though prefer to be able to run around (as they all do), If I lived in a more natural climate for them and raised them outdoors their whole lived I could expect the opposite and they would freak out for a while if kept indoors.
My Beardies do 90% of their breeding on the floor of my granny flat, they will breed in their enclosures, but go nuts when they have some running space, when I put them outside in their aviary they freak out a bit and stop. It comes down to finding out what makes them happy, my dragons have been largly raised indoors and feel safer indoors, though prefer to be able to run around (as they all do), If I lived in a more natural climate for them and raised them outdoors their whole lived I could expect the opposite and they would freak out for a while if kept indoors.
JasonL
Almost Legendary
Most new keepers don't set them up correctly and blame their poorly eating beardie on everything else but how they are keeping them, they also under estimate the amount of food they require.
Gecko_ProCs
Very Well-Known Member
i raised my 2 on just a 15watt down light, it generated enough heat gettin to between 35 and 40 degrees in a 3ft and ive only recently put in a proper uv light, but in saying that i did take them out for the odd bask in the sun
so yep its possible Miss B
so yep its possible Miss B
Pocket Lizard
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This is a great discussion guys. Just a few points that have come up:
1. Apparently after the occurence of eye problems overseas associated with compact UV lights, the Reptisun 10.0 now comes with a recommended minimum distance of 23-25 inches. Not sure on the 5.0 but it should now be on the packaging. It is believed that prolonged exposure to the very-short UV-B wavelengths these ligths put out is causing the damage.
2. In my experience our Aussie dragons can probably survive without UV (or at least with low levels) provided that dietary supplementation is provided (eg. Repti-cal) on all food. Its interesting to hear other peoples experience with bearded dragons because i've not kept them myself, just smaller species. I raise youngsters without UV typically, but adults get it in their larger breeding enclosures.
1. Apparently after the occurence of eye problems overseas associated with compact UV lights, the Reptisun 10.0 now comes with a recommended minimum distance of 23-25 inches. Not sure on the 5.0 but it should now be on the packaging. It is believed that prolonged exposure to the very-short UV-B wavelengths these ligths put out is causing the damage.
2. In my experience our Aussie dragons can probably survive without UV (or at least with low levels) provided that dietary supplementation is provided (eg. Repti-cal) on all food. Its interesting to hear other peoples experience with bearded dragons because i've not kept them myself, just smaller species. I raise youngsters without UV typically, but adults get it in their larger breeding enclosures.
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