Shedding question

[Mack86]

I've had my little Stimmy since early June and he shed in the middle of June and it took a while. As I was new to snake keeping I didn't really know what was going on at first but noticed he looked dull and crinkly and freaked out that he was dehydrated. Gave him a little bath in warm water as that was recommended to me and he shed that night but the shedding took a solid 2 weeks to fully come off (I know, humidity issue I guess and am still unsure what I will do to fix it should this happen the next time around)

Which brings me to my question...
I did a little tidy up of his enclosure today and he was behaving similarly to last time - skittish and cranky and super wrinkly (he always seems wrinkly around the neck but today was quite wrinkly in other parts too) Should assume then that he is going into shed again? I find it odd as he has only eaten twice since we got him and hasn't eaten for 7 weeks! I assumed they only shed when they grow and they don't grow if they decide food is not for them ?

Ok I'm waffling, if you made it this far my question is simply, does this sound like shedding again? I don't notice blue eyes at all and didn't last time either. If it is infact an impending shed, should I bath him again? Or just leave him alone to do his thing?

Thanks for the advice guys. I just hope my little guy is happy and okay. I really love him.

 

[Sdaji]

Snakes don't only slough when they're growing, and if they have a bad slough they're likely to try to slough again because they're old skin probably didn't turn out very well and they want a fresh one. They slough periodically to keep the skin fresh and healthy, and if they are injured or have any sort of skin issue they will usually initiate a slough cycle. If you haven't fixed the problem which caused the issue last time, you may end up with a recurring problem and if he isn't feeding it could even be dangerous.

The most common reason for bad sloughs is low humidity, sometimes low temperature (hopefully you don't have that problem, but if so, rectify it immediately). Make sure you get the humidity correct, and as always ensure the temperatures are appropriate.

Don't rely on a gauge to measure the humidity, this is unreliable and causes many people to get a bad result. If your humidity is too low it usually means you have too much ventilation or too small a water bowl. Too much ventilation can either be due to too much area of ventilation, too much air flow in the room, or the enclosure's air vents being in a bad position. It's difficult to comment without seeing your enclosure.

 

[Mack86]

I have a large water bowl in there. He is in a reptile one hatchling kit which sits inside his larger enclosure he will eventually go into. Heating is via a 7w heat mat on half of his enclosure. Thermostat set to run at between 30 and 34 degrees. Cool hide was around 20 but days are warming up so we are getting a nice 24 on the cool side now. Substrate is Aspen. Windows in the room are always shut, not a lot of ventilation or draughts at all infact none. Mesh top on both his small enclosure and his large enclosure so I know that can contribute.....

As far as I know glass isn't great but unfortunately that's what I have atm and will need to try and make it work.

Can you elaborate on the part where you said if it's reocurring and he's not eating it could be dangerous?

I'm here to learn so any tips on how to fix a humidity issue and measure humidity effectively I am all ears for.

My husband gave him a pinkie rat I had in the freezer from ages ago (he's never eaten them I was convinced by a shop assistant to buy them). He normally eats fuzzy mice and he didn't realise he'd given him the wrong thing. He took it after a bit , started to try to swallow it then let it go after a while. That's when I realised it was the rat. Trying to give him the mouse now but he won't have a bar of it. He's going to go off his food even longer now isn't he

I just feel so disheartened, I have tried so hard and I just can't seem to get things right

this is the enclosure from the top with the mesh screen lid slid back

 

[Sdaji]

Those hatchling kits are as expensive as they are terrible. A $2 plastic tub is literally far superior. People buy that garbage because it's pretty and it's marketed in pet shops so people assume it must be good. Sadly it's beginners who don't know better who are duped into buying them and they are the least able to recognise problems or deal with them.

Full top ventilation makes it very difficult to maintain humidity, and I would only ever use it for arid zone lizards which need very low humidity. For snakes it's absolutely terrible. Glass is awful for multiple reasons and if you're using an absorbant substrate you're basically keeping the snake in a dehydration chamber. The easiest thing to do as an immediate remedy is cover most of the top with a tile or any other flat object. This will help maintain the temperature and humidity. I'd toss the glass enclosure and upgrade to a $2 plastic tub.

Use a thermometer to measure temperatures. Always measure temperature directly, with a thermometer, do not ever rely on a thermostat setting. A thermostat will generally not work effectively as a thermometer, and certainly can't be relied on to measure temperature. It can regulate temperature but you need a thermometer to use a thermostat properly, otherwise you're taking a shot in the dark and just hoping for the best.

If a snake is being forced to repeatedly shed its skin because of a stressful environment and skin damage, it is using up bodily protein, fat and energy reserves. If it isn't eating these reserves are not being replaced, and if left unchecked this can result in the death of the snake.

I just feel so disheartened, I have tried so hard and I just can't seem to get things right

Don't feel too disheartened, it's really not your fault. It's pretty easy to see how beginners trust the extremely bad advice from pet shops. None of us knows any better when we're starting out.

Fix the humidity (simply covering about 80-90% of the top should be all you need to do, just play around until you get it right, and you might want to err on the humid side until he has had a good slough), make sure the temperatures are good, leave the snake alone for a week or two, and he should be fine.

 

[Mack86]

Thanks for all that info Sdaji, I will do as you've said. What do you use to measure humidity? A hygrometer or whatever it's called? And what should it be reading for a Stimson's Python?

Will a thermostat box do for now? I've got no tiles on hand. Or is this a silly idea

 

[Herpetology]

A teatowel would be more effective, it’ll even cover the glass that’s letting your heat out

Go to your local reject shop tomorrow and buy a 5L quadrant tub, and sit that ontop of the heat mat with the mat taking up 1/3 of the surface area

Hygrometer gauges are useless, if you have a big enough water bowl, it’ll provide all the humidity you need, if it’s too humid (condensation on the sides and lid), drill some small holes into the side of the tub to regulate it

 

[Mack86]

I never thought of a tea towel @Herpetology , thanks. Does it appear I have covered up enough of the surface area here? He will probably like the privacy too.

I understand the tubs are better but I guess I just wanted something that looked a bit nicer as he is our only snake. Am I affecting the health in a huge way by doing the glass enclosure? His bigger enclosure is also glass and I really wanted to try and make that work too. Is there any hope ?

Will he ever eat again after today's stuff up with the food? Is he wrinkly because he is that dehydrated? I'm so confused and concerned by all of this. What substrate would be better? The non fertilized stuff from Bunnings?

I'll attach a photo of him as well. If he looks weird please tell me.



I should also note that I am hearing what you are all saying 100% and I'm not totally against the tubs by any means I just really wanted this glass to work. If it doesn't it doesn't and I know what I need to do.

Appreciate all of this advice

 

[Herpetology]

the small one can work if you cover the sides and top with some sort of insulation material (styrofoam usually)
personally, i would get your refund on the larger enclosure and all the bits and bobs from pet shop
find a custom enclosure maker (some kitchen/cabinet makers will do them aswell if you tell them what you need) near you (plenty out there) and get a 3x2x2ft melamine enclosure for half the price


edit: they can work, but theyre not worth the hassle, or the price

 

[Mack86]

Hey thanks very much I really appreciate the advice I have taken it all on board.

 

[Sdaji]

Thanks for all that info Sdaji, I will do as you've said. What do you use to measure humidity? A hygrometer or whatever it's called? And what should it be reading for a Stimson's Python?

Will a thermostat box do for now? I've got no tiles on hand. Or is this a silly idea
View attachment 333962

As I said (and Herpetology already answered), I don't recommend using any sort of gauge to measure humidity. The reading you will get from a gauge will be meaningless in a practical sense. It's difficult to explain without getting deep into the physics, but the same relative humidity level, even at the same temperature, can cause condensation or evaporation (dessication) depending on other variables. Just increase the humidity by decreasing the ventilation until you get a good result. If you see condensation it generally means the humidity is too high, but if you increase it enough to get some condensation for a sort time to facilitate sloughing, it's a good thing. Another option is to use a moisture box. You can use sphagnum moss or just your aspen bedding, put it inside something like a yoghurt tub or margarine tub or takeaway food container, add enough water to make it very moist and just make a small hole in the lid or side, big enough for the snake to get in and out, but small enough not to let the moisture out quickly. Put this at the warm end of the enclosure and the snake should use it to moisten its skin and have a good slough, even if the rest of the enclosure is too dry.

Yes, a box is fine. A chopping board, a piece of glass, an old LP, any flat object will do. I don't recommend a tea towel because it is porous and won't work as well, but it will be better that nothing. I suggest something waterproof, even cling wrap would do the job. A plastic tub would be perfect.

The substrate is fine as long as you manage the humidity properly, but keep in mind that it is absorbant so you will need a larger water bowl and/or less ventilation.

How important it is to have a pretty glass enclosure is subjective and your call. Personally I put almost zero priority to aesthetics and all that priority into animal wellbeing and practicality of maintenance (which indirectly benefits animal wellbeing), but obviously aesthetics are of high importance to some people. That's entirely your call.

 

[Mack86]

@Sdaji , all of what you have just said makes a lot of sense thank you for all of that information and going as in-depth as you did with it.

"How important it is to have a pretty glass enclosure is subjective and your call. Personally I put almost zero priority to aesthetics and all that priority into animal wellbeing and practicality of maintenance (which indirectly benefits animal wellbeing), but obviously aesthetics are of high importance to some people. That's entirely your call."

^^^ this is food for thought for sure and it's nice to see you care so much about your animals. The welfare of the animal should be number one priority I definitely do hear what you're saying there.