wichita
Active Member
uh oh...
should new licence applications be required to do a husbandry course?
- Thread starter croc_hunter_penny
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uh oh...
Hey wichita can you smell napalm?
croc_hunter_penny
Well-Known Member
Maybe they could have an RPL type of written test sent to people who can't attend the course.
wichita
Active Member
Ok. So let's write the course.
I've done some lecturing (TAFEs, Unis, industry approx 20 years) and I'm sure that there's lots of APS members with more experience than me. As far as content goes it's all here in the heads of members of APS.
Lets write it and see where it ends up.
wichita
Active Member
LOL :lol: :lol: :lol: !!!
little guy
Not so new Member
I fully agree penny a basic species pacific Husbandry course should be a part of receiving your licence. This should include some sort of criminal / mental check.
{This does not mean disabled or criminals cant keep them.}
I have seen some bad husbandry in my time and it was not by any one keeping them illegally.
{ Not that i would ever back poachers.}
1 case a bloke who had received his licence in NSW bought a baby blue tongue from me. After asking me to sex the lizard I explained it was nearly impossible to do with out popping hemi's. A practice i do not recommend unless the person is trained and has a good reputation for doing this procedure and even then i would be worried.
He seemed keen and away he went.
Next thing his wife not him is carrying the lizard around town like a baby { i swear}. Stopping people in shop's and the street too "check it out ". This went on for weeks.
I explained how this was not aloud and not good for the lizard.{not that it stopped her.}
A week later he's at my door with a reptile mag he just bought that showed how popping hemi's was done! Dont you try it i said you will kill the lizard.
Not 12 hour's later he is on the phone there is something wrong with the bluey. What I said? Something is hanging out of it's bum. After the lizard died a painful death at the hands of this pair of fool's I went ballistic and told them not to come near me ever again and I will do my all to tell people about what they did. {So there it is}, He is still licenced and continues to add to his list of disasters.
Australian wide Course approved Licencing is the way to go.
Make a Human pay or work for something and they will look after it.
{This does not mean disabled or criminals cant keep them.}
I have seen some bad husbandry in my time and it was not by any one keeping them illegally.
{ Not that i would ever back poachers.}
1 case a bloke who had received his licence in NSW bought a baby blue tongue from me. After asking me to sex the lizard I explained it was nearly impossible to do with out popping hemi's. A practice i do not recommend unless the person is trained and has a good reputation for doing this procedure and even then i would be worried.
He seemed keen and away he went.
Next thing his wife not him is carrying the lizard around town like a baby { i swear}. Stopping people in shop's and the street too "check it out ". This went on for weeks.
I explained how this was not aloud and not good for the lizard.{not that it stopped her.}
A week later he's at my door with a reptile mag he just bought that showed how popping hemi's was done! Dont you try it i said you will kill the lizard.
Not 12 hour's later he is on the phone there is something wrong with the bluey. What I said? Something is hanging out of it's bum. After the lizard died a painful death at the hands of this pair of fool's I went ballistic and told them not to come near me ever again and I will do my all to tell people about what they did. {So there it is}, He is still licenced and continues to add to his list of disasters.
Australian wide Course approved Licencing is the way to go.
Make a Human pay or work for something and they will look after it.
ScottBec
Active Member
I live in Rockhampton, and we have an EPA office about 15mins from my house, I was (at the time of getting my herp licence) a dunty manager at a busy tavern in town - - so my roster was varied, and my sleeping was usually done during the day...
This is mind, I wouldn't be able to attend the original course time suggested, but I would say I have spent about a month researching each species we now keep (BEFORE WE BOUGHT IT) and we have introduced a number of people into the herping way of life.
I would even say We're developing our own methods of husbandry to suit our climate.... Can you really suggest that a standardised course would correct any problems that are at hand - even if we only consider that Qld EPA provide details of minimun standards for keeping species (the amount of vents is varied between Rocky and Brissy, not to mention those further north)
IMO a stratagy that should be adopted is that all EPA reptile officers be educated, and that more information is supplied with your licence - - I got min Licence about 2 years ago and the only thing I received inthe mail was my licence. I have helped a friend complete thier licence and I was suprized that the paperwork had not vaired, however I was impressed with the Ecoaccess info that was supplied... (I had tosearch and find this for myself)....
Maybe as suggested above, we should recieve more info with our licences, and yes, maybe increase the licence fees to cope with the supply of docs....
How many Qlders would know if they can keep a Brown tree snake (venomous) a Rec licence, or if / how many womas one can keep = = these are the basic rules/obligations that should be provided in easy to understand enghlish for every new licence that's issued... AND while we're at it - one licence for the entire country would be a good start!!!!
Again: this is my opion and is a lot of venting, as I have also witnessed a horrible death (a licenced herper with no knowledge)
This is mind, I wouldn't be able to attend the original course time suggested, but I would say I have spent about a month researching each species we now keep (BEFORE WE BOUGHT IT) and we have introduced a number of people into the herping way of life.
I would even say We're developing our own methods of husbandry to suit our climate.... Can you really suggest that a standardised course would correct any problems that are at hand - even if we only consider that Qld EPA provide details of minimun standards for keeping species (the amount of vents is varied between Rocky and Brissy, not to mention those further north)
IMO a stratagy that should be adopted is that all EPA reptile officers be educated, and that more information is supplied with your licence - - I got min Licence about 2 years ago and the only thing I received inthe mail was my licence. I have helped a friend complete thier licence and I was suprized that the paperwork had not vaired, however I was impressed with the Ecoaccess info that was supplied... (I had tosearch and find this for myself)....
Maybe as suggested above, we should recieve more info with our licences, and yes, maybe increase the licence fees to cope with the supply of docs....
How many Qlders would know if they can keep a Brown tree snake (venomous) a Rec licence, or if / how many womas one can keep = = these are the basic rules/obligations that should be provided in easy to understand enghlish for every new licence that's issued... AND while we're at it - one licence for the entire country would be a good start!!!!
Again: this is my opion and is a lot of venting, as I have also witnessed a horrible death (a licenced herper with no knowledge)
croc_hunter_penny
Well-Known Member
I am talking about designing a basic course.. I don't mean to make everyone a professional, just something to give a clue to those who don't have one. At the end of the day if they obviously still don't have a clue then they won't pass the quiz therefore they won't get a licence. I imagine that it would be very basic. How to furnish an enclosure (hides, water, heat mats etc) how to handle reptiles safely, stuff like that. Just information that everyone should know, and lots of people don't. Anyone with half a brain would then adapt what they have learned for their own house, animal and climate, and those without half a brain still has good solid advice to go from.
Like i said earlier, they could have a test that those who can't attend the course can fill out, with a theory book (that everyone can get a copy of, for future reference)
-penny
Like i said earlier, they could have a test that those who can't attend the course can fill out, with a theory book (that everyone can get a copy of, for future reference)
-penny
croc_hunter_penny
Well-Known Member
ynnep-
?ssecorp eht trats ot od ot deen i od tahw .ot woh wonk t'nod i tub ,esruoc a pu etirw ot evol dluow i aetihciw
?ssecorp eht trats ot od ot deen i od tahw .ot woh wonk t'nod i tub ,esruoc a pu etirw ot evol dluow i aetihciw
croc_hunter_penny
Well-Known Member
uh, sorry my computer screwed up and made everything type backwards? weird.. anyway what I was trying to say:
wichita I would love to write up a course, but i don't know how to. What do I need to do to start the process?
-penny
wichita I would love to write up a course, but i don't know how to. What do I need to do to start the process?
-penny
hazzard
Very Well-Known Member
Like the correct handling procedure in your AVATAR Penny?
Half the people on this site wouldn't pass a basic knowledge or skills test!
10 points for trying, however it will not be adopted. They are already at looking at easier ways of handling licensing like simple on line application forms and then printing your license. These departments are under-resourced and any attempt to tighten legislation would increase the cost dramaticallly!
How many people on here would whinge if they were to double the license fee to adopt the administration of such a system?
As Rams said, who is qualified to teach these courses? You would need to set up a comittee of experts to design the course. They won't adopt a course designed by APS members! IMO most on here would fail the course if they did it themselves.
It would be nice if it did happen and i encourage you to pursue it, but get some backing from some people with influence or you will get nowhere. Talk to the scientists and the big breeders and get their opinions!
They don't do it for dogs and cats, birds or fish and they won't do it for reptiles!
Half the people on this site wouldn't pass a basic knowledge or skills test!
10 points for trying, however it will not be adopted. They are already at looking at easier ways of handling licensing like simple on line application forms and then printing your license. These departments are under-resourced and any attempt to tighten legislation would increase the cost dramaticallly!
How many people on here would whinge if they were to double the license fee to adopt the administration of such a system?
As Rams said, who is qualified to teach these courses? You would need to set up a comittee of experts to design the course. They won't adopt a course designed by APS members! IMO most on here would fail the course if they did it themselves.
It would be nice if it did happen and i encourage you to pursue it, but get some backing from some people with influence or you will get nowhere. Talk to the scientists and the big breeders and get their opinions!
They don't do it for dogs and cats, birds or fish and they won't do it for reptiles!
croc_hunter_penny
Well-Known Member
What's wrong with my avatar? Thanks for starting the personal attacks though, I was wondering when that was gonna happen.
charming.. Isn't that why we are all here?
Maybe they should stop worrying about whats going into their pockets and start worrying about the animals they are supposed to be protecting.
I know I wouldn't. I was really surprised at how cheap it was. It costs a lot more than that to get any other kind of licence, and any licence that I can think of comes with some kind of training, whether formal or informal. It is hardly a licence at all IMO, it is more of a record of who is keeping what animal - a registration.
It isn't a course designed by APS members, besides the fact that I am sure that other members of this site have some sort of job, degree or qualification in many areas - besides the ability to use a keyboard - that could aid in the design of such a course. There are teachers, vets, herpetologists, students in biology, reptile breeders and sellers, animal carers, and herp owners. I am not sure what you would consider a comittee of "experts" but what exactly makes an expert of reptile husbandry? I am not talking about creating a degree in herpetology, just a simple basic course to give people a kick start into owning and caring for reptiles. The quiz isn't to stop 90% of applicants from getting their licence, it's just to make sure they were paying attention.
You know there are plenty of basic husbandry courses out there already. My point in starting this thread was to say that I personally didn't know these courses existed until i started looking for somewhere to do a vens course, long after getting my licence. If I didn't know they were there, then how many other people are unaware of their courses?
Maybe they should.
mcloughlin2
Well-Known Member
Penny, before i have my say i just want to say I am new to reptiles.
I think Hazzard was referring to the fact your snake has been placed on your glasses, and then it appears that it has been pulled by the head and tail whilst still wrapped around the glasses. Even if that is not what it appears, it certainly looks to be very careless/cruel to anyone who can only see the pictures.
There is a VERY VERY small percentage of people who would take on a full time or time consuming job such as what they do if they were not payed. If they raise the fees for a class 1 licence to $120/2yrs i would expect a very signifigant drop in the amount of people renewing and applying for licences. What would this mean? Well simple, there will be little or no more extra money made. Asking for a test would require money to pay people to supervise the exam, to print the test out, to pay more people to cope with all the extra proccessing that would need to be completed etc. You have raised a nice little question but if you were to pursue this further, you wouldn't go anywhere without a stronger arguement.
I would not be happy about it. I would pay it but not be happy. But if you were to add extra costs to the intial setup cost there would be alot of very dissapointed little kids and adults who cannot afford it.
What about the 12yr olds who have saved up just enough money for a cage, equipment, bluey and the $60 fee only to find out they have to save for a few months before they can get there lizard?
Goodluck with what you hope to do.
Sam
I think Hazzard was referring to the fact your snake has been placed on your glasses, and then it appears that it has been pulled by the head and tail whilst still wrapped around the glasses. Even if that is not what it appears, it certainly looks to be very careless/cruel to anyone who can only see the pictures.
There is a VERY VERY small percentage of people who would take on a full time or time consuming job such as what they do if they were not payed. If they raise the fees for a class 1 licence to $120/2yrs i would expect a very signifigant drop in the amount of people renewing and applying for licences. What would this mean? Well simple, there will be little or no more extra money made. Asking for a test would require money to pay people to supervise the exam, to print the test out, to pay more people to cope with all the extra proccessing that would need to be completed etc. You have raised a nice little question but if you were to pursue this further, you wouldn't go anywhere without a stronger arguement.
Originally Posted by hazzard
How many people on here would whinge if they were to double the license fee to adopt the administration of such a system?
I know I wouldn't. I was really surprised at how cheap it was. It costs a lot more than that to get any other kind of licence, and any licence that I can think of comes with some kind of training, whether formal or informal. It is hardly a licence at all IMO, it is more of a record of who is keeping what animal - a registration.
I would not be happy about it. I would pay it but not be happy. But if you were to add extra costs to the intial setup cost there would be alot of very dissapointed little kids and adults who cannot afford it.
What about the 12yr olds who have saved up just enough money for a cage, equipment, bluey and the $60 fee only to find out they have to save for a few months before they can get there lizard?
Goodluck with what you hope to do.
Sam
croc_hunter_penny
Well-Known Member
I promise he did that on his own.
It wouldn't be an exam, it would be a pop quiz. At most a "were you paying attention in class?" quiz not "are you going to be the best herper in the universe?" quiz. It's one piece of paper, if that. Considering they post half a ream to you about what you can own etc etc, what is one more piece of paper? then there are those people who can't make it to classes. Ok, well they can just have the booklet and the quiz to return. Then you may say "well why doesn't everyone just get a booklet? Nothing beats hands-on experience!
They could easily make the licence from $50 change to $70 and that would include the class and booklet. To cover the costs for the classes (that they can run once a month instead of weekly, depending on interest) they can get reptile product companies and pet stores to advertise products at the end of the booklet, or within if appropriate.
Patience is a virtue.
Besides, I was that kid! I have wanted a snake since I was a child. I found an aquarium near my house that sold snakes, and they told me it would cost $600 for my licence, an enclosure and a childrens python. So I saved and I saved.. Just before I reached my goal, my family moved to QLD (From Melbourne) where at the time you couldn't even buy snakes from pet stores. My parents didn't know where to find private breeders or how to get a licence, so I didn't get one until I was an adult.
Tell ya what it made me appreciate my snakes a whole lot more than it would if I forked out a couple of weeks of pocket money for one, or harassed my parents 'til iI had my way (gotta love kids).
Kids could learn something from being shown how to properly care for their first reptile anyway, so whats another week or three of pocket money to make sure your new lizard doesn't die?
-penny
mcloughlin2
Well-Known Member
It may be the case, but to a newbie or anyone really it looks like someones pulled the snake.
I do believe you but.
If i was one of the people who could not make the exam, if i was to recieve a exam through the mail, whats stopping me from asking for the answers or searching on the net?
So many ' but if '
I do believe you but.
If i was one of the people who could not make the exam, if i was to recieve a exam through the mail, whats stopping me from asking for the answers or searching on the net?
So many ' but if '
croc_hunter_penny
Well-Known Member
It may be the case, but to a newbie or anyone really it looks like someones pulled the snake.
I do believe you but.
If i was one of the people who could not make the exam, if i was to recieve a exam through the mail, whats stopping me from asking for the answers or searching on the net?
So many ' but if '
It doesn't matter where you get the answers from. The point of the quiz is to get your brain thinking about what is best for your reptiles. In fact looking up the answers from other sources would start your own research!
Which is what a lot of new herp owners don't do. -penny
learning snake man
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Hello i remember a political party put the bird licence up to 800$, at one stage the the Libs came in and reversed it so give it time an hefty incress in licence fees will sort out a lot of owners as 20.30,000 in Australia. and just like a car licence a test should be inplace online or epa,s australia wide or sub offices PS; most likely their wont be an increase in fee,s as this is only my thought but you never know what ever is around the track also as for pushing it under ground you just have to increase the fines for keeping unlicence reptiles like to 10.000 + and you take a lot of that out of it as 99% of people won,t risk 10,000 fines+but a test yes for all animals it,s some protection
Ramsayi
Very Well-Known Member
And this is where the trouble starts.For everyone stating that some sort of testing be adopted then what is going to happen if you disagree with correct handling practises that this course/test might promote?
For everyone that thinks keeping snakes in pairs or more is correct procedure,what will you have to say when guidelines would promote keeping snakes singly (with a few exceptions) except when breeding ?
The list could go on and on.
After all the intent of this idea is for the good of the animals,trouble is when experienced keepers point out the correct and accepted way to keep reptiles a lot of others with limited experience wont hear a word of it.That being the case what hope would there be for people taking such course/test to actually come away from it and impliment what was being promoted if they happen to disagree with what these courses might teach?
Also its been touched on already that there is no such thing in place for any other pets so why should reptiles be singled out?
For everyone that thinks keeping snakes in pairs or more is correct procedure,what will you have to say when guidelines would promote keeping snakes singly (with a few exceptions) except when breeding ?
The list could go on and on.
After all the intent of this idea is for the good of the animals,trouble is when experienced keepers point out the correct and accepted way to keep reptiles a lot of others with limited experience wont hear a word of it.That being the case what hope would there be for people taking such course/test to actually come away from it and impliment what was being promoted if they happen to disagree with what these courses might teach?
Also its been touched on already that there is no such thing in place for any other pets so why should reptiles be singled out?
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