Small Dragon Species

[Revell13]

Hey guys, I'm looking to add to my mixed species enclosure by adding some more of the smaller varieties of dragons, such as the Mountain Heath Dragon and Painted Dragon, just wondering what peoples thoughts are on the topic, they would be going in with JUVIE Eastern Water Dragons and some jacky dragons in a 4x2x2

Also if anyone has suggestions for other small dragon species that I might be interested in, all comments and suggestions welcome!

The enclosure is this:

Basking 34-36
Cool End 18-22
Shallow (4-5 inch) water area and running water
Many more branches and hides since this picture was taken

 

[GeckPhotographer]

Hey Revell, Mountain Heath Dragons will go fine with Jackies and Water Dragons OF THE SAME SIZE. (Which is heavily age dependant as the other two species grow much larger.) As long as you are prepared to separate them when the Jacky Dragons or Water Dragons outgrow the Mountain Heaths this should be fine.

Painted Dragons generally require more heat and drier cage conditions than the other 3 coastal species and will probably need to be kept separately and in different conditions.

 

[Bluetongue1]

I agree with GeckPhotographer. Also any of the Amphibolourus genus, like Burns' Dragon and the Nobbi Dragon. The likes of C. decresii, C. fionni, C. vadnappa would do OK. Diporiphora australis and the Western Bearded Dragon (Pogona minor) also.

Blue

Edit: Not A. longirostris as they need more room and A. temporalis might need more heat.

 

[Rocket]

Here we go again with amateur keepers wanting to mix species, MANY that don't even share similar niches or distributions.

How I pity future hobbyists if this is the direction this hobby is steering.

 

[jack]

Here we go again with amateur keepers wanting to mix species that don't even share similar niches or distributions.

How I pity future hobbyists if this is the direction this hobby is steering.

thats a bit rich... mountain dragons and jackies exist in the same place, and they live quite comfortably together from what i remember when i did so in the late 80's and early 90's

 

[GeckPhotographer]

thats a bit rich... mountain dragons and jackies exist in the same place, and they live quite comfortably together from what i remember when i did so in the late 80's and early 90's

I've seen a wild Jacky eat a wild Heath, Jacky was a big male, Heath probably not quite full grown (but can't be sure with the whole it being eaten).

 

[Tassie97]

i like mountain dragons

 

[richoman_3]

i have to on rockets side for a bit of this,
im all for mixing species together, but if they are found in exact opposite habitats or dont arnt even found in the same locations than i suggest you dont mix them
i suggest you leave your jackys and ewd's together while the ewd is smaller and maybe make smaller tanks to house smaller dragons. All you need is a 3 foot long tank by a foot wide and about 2 feet high. Can stack them on eachother and have trios of smaller dragons in them - i have netteds in one and getting painteds soon in the one above

 

[Bluetongue1]

I have a problem with use of the term “amateur” keeper. Are you implying you are a professional and he is not? Or just using the term to give false weight to your statements? Care to explain?

It is something that is very much discouraged with a wide number of snakes due to their propensity to eat other snakes of even similar size. In fact, with some it is risking it keeping more than one of the same species in an enclosure.

Most lizards are different in this respect. Rob Bredl used to have a pit in his reptile park with half a dozen or so different dragon species happily co-existing. As far know, Rob would have been classified as a professional keeper because he did it for a living.

As for exact opposite habitats and very different locations... when people are giving advice on housing, I have seen very little of the latter being taken into account and virtually zero of the former. I don’t think I have ever heard it mentioned for a Gould’s Monitor (Sand Goanna), which is found Australia wide. Similarly with Shinglebacks, Eastern Bluetongues, Coastal Carpets, even EWDs. Same story with Jackies, Nobbi Dragons, Nephrurus laevis laevi and the list goes on. Wide-ranging species found either the length or breadth, or both, of Australia. What is required is an understanding of how to meet the animal’s needs in captivity, not the ability to exactly recreate the habitat. It is much more about providing a suitable micro-habitat.

jack, you are dead right about the two species co-existing. Mountain dragons tend to hang on rock surrounded by dense bushes and once warmed up will forage on more open ground. Jackies tended to be found in or on the tops of bushes and fallen branches. The Mountain dragons were in higher numbers where they did occur. Any sudden movements and they would disappear into the base of the shrubs.

Blue

 

[bk201]

I kept those exact same jackys with mountain dragons for the last 7 or 8 months without any problems.
same as with all reptiles if its small enough to be food obviously don't keep them together.
On the note of mixed species set ups i have done fine with jackys and mountain dragons (not adult jackys though some of my mountain dragons are large enough to co-exist with adults) yet my new adult female shingleback cant mix with my yearling shingle backs as the yearling attacks her...go figure...

On the note of mixed species...i have seen many reptile collections of keepers of reptiles for 20+ years who have had mixed set ups geckos and scaly foots, dragons and skinks, etc etc so amateur has nothing to do with it.

 

[Revell13]

Honestly guys I cant thank you enough for all your input.

Im going to be getting some adult Mountain Dragons soon (yay) and I'll be trialling them in the large enclosure, obviously as they live in my room and I have almost no life I will be able to keep a very close eye on them, if any aggression occurs, they will be separated (dur).

So far in my own (limited) experience, Eastern Water Skinks co-exist well with juvie eastern water dragons, and with my new Jacky dragons. Absolutely everyone in the enclosure is looking well fed and comfortable in their environment.

In another enclosure I have 2 Thick Tailed Geckos co-existing with an adult marbled gecko, again with no issues. Its always funny when I cant find my marbled in his arboreal hide and I find him instead in one of the 3 ground hides, chilling out on top of the male Thick Tailed.

Also at the moment considering trialling narrow banded sand swimmers with my centralian bearded, but that won't occur for around 12 months yet so no need to stress if I have made a gross mistake in this case, as I am sure you will let me know.

On a final note, thank you all again for your positive, helpful and informative comments.

 

[GeckPhotographer]

Also at the moment considering trialling narrow banded sand swimmers with my centralian bearded, but that won't occur for around 12 months yet so no need to stress if I have made a gross mistake in this case, as I am sure you will let me know.

I wouldn't do that.

But with an appropriately sized cage set up just right you might be able to get them to live with thicktails, I can't see agression from either of those species being problems, but beardies will eat ANYTHING they can fit in their mouth.

What substrate are your thickies on? I can think of better matches for Sandswimmers but not ones you have.

 

[bk201]

Agree bearded dragons should be kept alone or with the same species.

 

[Revell13]

Yeah Bdee will have to stay as a loner on his own then, Thick-Tails are on a coir-peat/vivarian sand (80/20) mix and are doing really well at the moment, female is just about to lay her first clutch of the season so cant wait for that

Ive made a tricked out 2 piece arboreal hide for the marbled, its a thick, 15cm long piece of gumtree branch that I cut a straight side on about 1/5th of the depth of the branch, then used a thick drillbit to hollow it out in the middle, from there I cut the piece in half so both halves have a part of the flat side on it, bored a small hole top to bottom which I then stuck a piece of plastic in to act as a pin, then used outdoor double sided tape to attach the bottom half to the glass. The only way to access it is via glass, so if the marbled wants a place to hide away from everyone, he can go there, and he uses it most days, I'll post pics in my DIY thread.

 

[eipper]

A few suggestions....

Where possible do not communally house without extensive thought. Yes in the wild they might be sympatric with habitats or even microhabitats but there is a huge difference....the regulation of a person governing the extent of the food and the enclosure itself.

I personally have some communal enclosures still running, I plans for a couple more but I have also had some blunders and as a result a Herp has been injured (nothing major).

Personally, I having kept all of the species you have spoken about in the thread would not keep those species together in any of the aforementioned combinations for any length of time.

Cheers
Scott

 

[Revell13]

Thanks man, I plan to remove the Water Dragons as soon as they outgrow the Jacky's, they are currently a little smaller and getting on fine though

 

[Bluetongue1]

Rocket,

I do react to the term “amateur” applied to others. It is usually use to belittle another, which I consider is seldom appropriate on the forum. We all have more to learn. Admitting that in asking questions is not a fault. I felt you were being unnecessarily harsh on somebody who was going about it the right way – giving ALL the details plus a picture and dimensions of the enclosure. If only others would do likewise when asking similar questions. I don’t care what this particular person has done in the past. They have displayed a responsible approach this time around and deserve to be treated accordingly.

If you feel I have been rude to you or undeservedly critical, I apologise with out reservation because that was not my goal. My goal is as stated above.

You are entitled to your opinion on my posts but not on my personality. If others feel the same about my posts, it is appropriate that they express that opinion for themselves. I have made it clear that am not here to make friends. I only wish to help out in those areas that I have a good understanding of. I also accept that sometimes I get it wrong. I would agree that many may not like my style of answering questions – as I like to explain WHY in addition to the WHAT to do. It takes a lot more time effort and space to do that. So long as the asker is happy with it, I shall continue to be like that. I can only suggest to those individuals who find it irksome to read such posts, skip reading what I write.

I see no useful purpose in making further comment. I do my best not to hold grudges and were you to post a question tomorrow that I felt I could assist with, I would do my best to help.

No hard feelings,
Blue

EDIT: I posted this and Rocket's post was deleted and he was suspended shortly thereafter. I shall leave it for him to anyway.

 

[jack]

in regards to mixing species, the shoalhaven zoo has a diamond in a landscaped sydney sandstonesque enclosure, along with a pair of death adders...

 

[disintegratus]

I have no idea about mixing species, wouldn't be able to help one bit. What I would like to know is WHERE THE HELL EVERYONE IS GETTING JACKY DRAGONS FROM?!?!?! I've been searching for them for ages, and I can't find any that are not unreasonably far away from me

 

[Rob]

I would agree that many may not like my style of answering questions

I for one am not part of this "many" that you mentioned.

Keep doing what you do, Blue - There are many of us who appreciate it.