Snake Positive Reinforcement?

[Konjira]

I was having this discussion with my partner the other night. I have a lot of experience training other animals like dogs, cats and birds using positive reinforcement, but I was wondering if there was such a thing for snakes? Generally I use treats and physical praise for other animals, however I can't imagine that a snake would react the same way. I mean, you can't exactly give them treats for good behaviour.

Maybe particular ways of petting/stroking your snake that it evidently enjoys? Does your snake react positively to certain actions? Do you believe a snake can truly be trained?

 

[shellfisch]

Do you believe a snake can truly be trained?

Umm.. NO

There are some who like to attribute human like feelings and reactions to their reptiles, but for me, that's a 'hell no' :lol:

 

[mikey_mike]

I've trained my python to eat rodents.

 

[Jacknifejimmy]

I've trained my snakes to balance on logs for an infinite amount of time.

 

[Umbral]

I've trained my snakes to balance on logs for an infinite amount of time.

That's nothing, mine could be world champion at a staring contest!

Back on topic, as snakes don't feel emotion and merely tolerate handling I'm not sure this would work.

 

[Nathan_T]

This topic comes up every once in a while.

Structurally, a snake's brain is extremely limited. Dogs, cats and even most birds would be described as extremely complex in comparison. Personally, simply from the brain structure I would suggest that you're making a massive assumption that snakes can feel pleasure, let alone learning from positive reinforcement. I think the argument that snakes have emotions and are intelligent stems more from our brains then theirs.

That said though, any neural pathway is able to be strengthened. I would have no problems believing that snakes learn to associate certain actions with food, such as approaching or opening the enclosure. But anything more than that would be stretching it in my book.

 

[dickyknee]

Stick to training cats and dogs , snakes do not have any thing in their heads other than eat , crap , breed ....

 

[SpilotaFreak78]

All I've ever been able to do with snakes is get them to eat when they have been put in their feeding tubs, and shy away from my hands when wearing sanitiser gel on them but even that is not 100% reliable. I see snakes as predators with a primitive mind, they have basic habits and thats it, they can't really be trained. Only taught some habits, and thats about all.

Gawd, could you think of the possibilities though if you could train them, I reckon the poor dears would be exploited to do mundane tricks and crap. Either that or they'd be like a shark and be a top predator then we would have no hope.

 

[stimigex]

All I've ever been able to do with snakes is get them to eat when they have been put in their feeding tubs
.

They will eat where ever they are, they are oppertunistic feeders. if they were offered feed in their enclosure they would smash it with out delay!

 

[SpilotaFreak78]

Of course they would Stim, but my main point is that I have pets, pets who I want to be able to take out of their cages/tanks without hassle who are not going to think they are getting fed every time I put my hands in there, and my girls are handled alot, so I feed them elsewhere, being fed in feed tubs is their self learned habit for them. Kind of cute though to see them waiting in the tubs with their noses stuck to the inside of the lid waiting for that rat or whatever to pop inside the tub for them. And yes Stim they all get fed in seperate tubs with their names on it (not that that matters) so no chance of contamination!

 

[disintegratus]

I don't know...
One of mine's taught himself a pretty awesome trick. Pebbles the coastal has a tall enclosure with a top level which has a smallish hole in it to get to the bottom where the branches, cold end and water bowl is. Last night I heard water splashing, only to see him perched on the edge of the hole, crapping directly into the water bowl. That's pretty impressive!

Alf bites on command (by "command" I mean anytime anyone anywhere in the world does anything)

I don't think they can be trained. I think the best we can hope for is that they learn to associate their owners with "not potential death and/or snack", which most of them (scrubbies not included) seem to have managed quite well

 

[stimigex]

Of course they would Stim, but my main point is that I have pets, pets who I want to be able to take out of their cages/tanks without hassle who are not going to think they are getting fed every time I put my hands in there, and my girls are handled alot, so I feed them elsewhere, being fed in feed tubs is their self learned habit for them. Kind of cute though to see them waiting in the tubs with their noses stuck to the inside of the lid waiting for that rat or whatever to pop inside the tub for them. And yes Stim they all get fed in seperate tubs with their names on it (not that that matters) so no chance of contamination!

The old contamination issue is a real sore point i see, I wont argue with you, its not worth it
Because when you add new snake into a room with existing snakes there is NO quarantine.

On the ability to handle a snake from its enclosure with out being tagged, we do it all the time and never get tagged, We feed ALL snakes in their enclosures! Have done so for decades.

Snakes are very simple and easy to understand, If it smells like feed they bite, constrict and eat it if doesnt they couldnt give a rat ring, new keepers have been trying to convince them selves for ages that feeding snakes in seperate tubs trains the snake not to bite. The old MYTH does the rounds every year.

 

[rvcasa]

+1


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[Mo Deville]

snakes have to be probably one of the most boring animals to keep IMO, the only things that makes them fun to keep is, colour/patterns, them being snappy and the venom factor, otherwise their pretty much display animals.

 

[carterd]

Positive reinforcement? Its more like setting patterns. Animals behave according to instinct.
All my Snakes are toilet trained, because i reinforced, that i would take them outside of there enclosure to do there business.
I wouldn't call it training, just commitment, knowing Animals don't like to crap where they sleep.

 

[moussaka]

I was having this discussion with my partner the other night. I have a lot of experience training other animals like dogs, cats and birds using positive reinforcement, but I was wondering if there was such a thing for snakes? Generally I use treats and physical praise for other animals, however I can't imagine that a snake would react the same way. I mean, you can't exactly give them treats for good behaviour.

Maybe particular ways of petting/stroking your snake that it evidently enjoys? Does your snake react positively to certain actions? Do you believe a snake can truly be trained?

No.

 

[-Peter]

cant hurt, negative reinforcement works detrimentally so have a go.

 

[Pythoninfinite]

Positive reinforcement? Its more like setting patterns. Animals behave according to instinct.
All my Snakes are toilet trained, because i reinforced, that i would take them outside of there enclosure to do there business.
I wouldn't call it training, just commitment, knowing Animals don't like to crap where they sleep.

The posts in this thread are pretty much all on the money, except this one. Your snakes aren't "toilet trained"... they don't think "Oh, I'm out of my cage so it's a good opportunity not to crap in my own space..." You credit them with thought processes they just don't have. What makes snakes crap when you take them out of their enclosures, and especially if they are on a lawn or similar, is the stress of stimulation and movement, not a rational thought process. Pythons in particular are lazy creatures, they don't move much if they don't have to. One of the drawbacks of captive life is that it reduces the potential for activity even more, so the removal from their enclosure is more of a stressor than a pleasure for them, regardless of what the anthropomorphs would like to think.

As far as not soiling their sleeping space - you only have to go into a ceiling space or cave or wherever a snake has been resident for a while to debunk that theory. I've seen ceiling spaces where snake poo is just about ankle deep in poo and shed skins, and the resident reptile has been happily curled up on its own waste. They have evidently been there for years, and definitely don't go elsewhere to take a dump.

Jamie

 

[disintegratus]

I'd have to agree with that ^
Mine could crap anywhere in their enclosures that they like, yet most of the time like to take a dump in whichever hide they're in at the time, invariably causing me to have to clean said hide, usually with great difficulty.
Except for Pebbles, the amazing, toilet-trained balancing, aiming pooper.

 

[JM1982]

Have you tried spanking?

...your snake I mean...

...UM WAIT, THE REPTILE!!!:shock:

...geez I think I almost got banned then