Red-Ink
Very Well-Known Member
Does it matter how many snakes people are breeding?
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longqi
Very Well-Known Member
In some ways it matters red
From what Ive noticed there are too many very ordinary snakes etc hitting the market
example
there are many gorgeous jags out there
but this year seems a lot for sale that dont bear any resemblance to gorgeous
Same thing can be said for other colour/pattern morphs too
with morphs in particular great care should be taken to enhance rather than detract from the morph imo
enhancing the morph requires forward planning and good breeding stock
in a couple of years some will be released
owner has taken his time with best of the best
hopefully they will open a few eyes to what can really be done if you dont just toss some snakes together and hope
Quality sells
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Those gorgeous jags still have a lot of ordinary clutch mates and these are what the breeders sell.
GeckoJosh
Almost Legendary
And what happens to the by product clutch mates?
RedFox
Very Well-Known Member
Lots of very ordinary pure and mixed animals on the market... Good bloodlines sell, nice colours and patterns sell, different sell... Plain looking animals don't.
I've seen quite a few people breeding average looking, lower end reptiles to "gain experience", without considering clutch sizes, saleability and how many offspring they can financially support long term.
Would euthanasia be an acceptable way to deal with excess stock?
I've seen quite a few people breeding average looking, lower end reptiles to "gain experience", without considering clutch sizes, saleability and how many offspring they can financially support long term.
Would euthanasia be an acceptable way to deal with excess stock?
Red-Ink
Very Well-Known Member
If people take responsibility for what happens post incubation, it doesn't really matter how many or whatever is being bred.
Options:
Sell
Sell cheap
Free
Keep
Reptile food
Pick any of those choices or a combination of all then the numbers don't matter...
Options:
Sell
Sell cheap
Free
Keep
Reptile food
Pick any of those choices or a combination of all then the numbers don't matter...
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Are Australian reptiles really being over bred? corns snakes and normal ball pythons in usa sell for $25ea so I don't think we have reached saturation point yet. I think people forget that a reptile is only worth what someone is willing to pay. There will be a point where run of the mill reptiles in Australia will sell for $25, if you don't want to sell for market price either keep them or don't breed simple really.
Mr.Self-destruct
New Member
I've stayed out of this thread for a while so I'll put in my two cents. If you want the herp trade in this country to ever take off then market saturation is completely necessary. As an American living here I'm jaw drop shocked at how expensive YOUR OWN SPECIES OF SNAKES ARE. I can buy a gtp in the US for 350-400 per hatchy. Why? Because of market saturation. Lots of people owning, lots of people breeding, lots of people selling.
That's a bad thing, think about the animals blah blah blah. There are always going to be people out there that don't breed responsibly. If you ever want prices to drop on animals, less wild caught individuals and less stigma from the general public then flooding the market with cheap snakes that your average Joe is willing to buy to get into herps will do it. And honestly, if you breed, expect to keep most of what you produce sometimes to adulthood or just don't bother breeding.
Have woes as a breeder that you're not making as much on the snakes you bought because they dropped in value because so many people are breeding now? When more people get into keeping herps because of more commonly available snakes (think what corn snakes and ball pythons have done for the US herp trade) you will have many more buyers on the market in years to come.
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I'd say a RBB, woma, lacey or copperhead is a great way to get rid of most surplus.
That's a bad thing, think about the animals blah blah blah. There are always going to be people out there that don't breed responsibly. If you ever want prices to drop on animals, less wild caught individuals and less stigma from the general public then flooding the market with cheap snakes that your average Joe is willing to buy to get into herps will do it. And honestly, if you breed, expect to keep most of what you produce sometimes to adulthood or just don't bother breeding.
Have woes as a breeder that you're not making as much on the snakes you bought because they dropped in value because so many people are breeding now? When more people get into keeping herps because of more commonly available snakes (think what corn snakes and ball pythons have done for the US herp trade) you will have many more buyers on the market in years to come.
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I'd say a RBB, woma, lacey or copperhead is a great way to get rid of most surplus.
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Red-Ink
Very Well-Known Member
313 million people Vs 22.3 million people
Walking into a pet store full of CB and imports and pointing to a $25 snake on an impulse buy Vs CB supplied specimens in a specialised licensed retailer who'll will ask you if you have the appropriate legal license to purchase the reptile
Couple that with state by state differing legislations as to what can and can not be kept in that state...
It ain't as simple as "market saturation"....
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RedFox
Very Well-Known Member
[MENTION=40181]Mr.Self-destruct[/MENTION]
GTP are a very poor example as the cheaper prices are due also to import laws, not necessarily excessive breeding. If you can find a pure Australian GTP over there for less than what we would pay I would be very surprised. There are plenty of GTP that go for over $1000 in the US.
There are plenty of animals that get sold for $50 or less here, that would attract the 'average Joe'. But is producing an excessive amount of average looking animals the best way to attract the 'average Joe' and should euthanasia of excess animals become common place like it is for other animals like dogs, cats, horses?
Licenses and fees are more likely to stop the 'average Joe' impulse buying and getting involved, as a $25 snake quickly turns into a $100 one with license fees on top.
GTP are a very poor example as the cheaper prices are due also to import laws, not necessarily excessive breeding. If you can find a pure Australian GTP over there for less than what we would pay I would be very surprised. There are plenty of GTP that go for over $1000 in the US.
There are plenty of animals that get sold for $50 or less here, that would attract the 'average Joe'. But is producing an excessive amount of average looking animals the best way to attract the 'average Joe' and should euthanasia of excess animals become common place like it is for other animals like dogs, cats, horses?
Licenses and fees are more likely to stop the 'average Joe' impulse buying and getting involved, as a $25 snake quickly turns into a $100 one with license fees on top.
do you really think someone who buys a $25 reptile is going to get a license?
ingie
Well-Known Member
The person selling the reptile should be making sure that their customers already have a license.
When a breeder has 20 plus ordinary coastals, selling them for $50 ea and still having trouble selling all of them I doubt they will care either way. They should but from experience they don't.
Red-Ink
Very Well-Known Member
So you've bought animals without a license or sold animals to unlicensed people from experience?
I think people are forgetting the real reason they got into reptiles to start with. Is it really about money and covering costs etc etc? If that's your main concerns then your in it for the wrong reason's. If your not prepared to keep hatchlings yourself then don't breed them for any reason! I think licensing and laws in this country need a major overhaul.
Rare and interesting morphs don't necessarily mean they are more likely to sell and at a higher price. Till the reptile expos earlier this year I was looking for interesting childreni but how often do you see Elcho island, T+, patternless, etc. come up and even when they do they are dirt cheap compared to more common morphs. There's just no demand for them so very few people breed and sell them. I made a point of getting there early because there are so few available and sure enough there was only one t+ left and 2 patternless/rp. The cost was amazing when you consider there were close to a dozen albino darwins selling from $700-$1k each while the t+ childreni were $600 and patternless/rp only $250, I didn't see the price on the ghosts but I was considering getting one of them.
Is there too many reptiles being bred? dunno but there are people who shouldn't be breeding. I would like to one day out of interest but I don't have the space or the time. Of course I know people who have had one snake for a very short time then get another with the intention of breeding some rare morph and selling them quickly to make a buck.
Is there too many reptiles being bred? dunno but there are people who shouldn't be breeding. I would like to one day out of interest but I don't have the space or the time. Of course I know people who have had one snake for a very short time then get another with the intention of breeding some rare morph and selling them quickly to make a buck.
No I've brought animals and had to insist on getting movement advice and seeing their license but thumbs up for being such a good keyboard warrior.
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Red-Ink
Very Well-Known Member
Wasn't being a keyboard warrior... I was trying to get clarification on what was an ambiguous sentence hence this punctuation mark "?"at the end of my statement. Settle down sunshine in calling people keyboard warriors... just in case you haven't met the kettle.
turtle
Well-Known Member
Definately not too many snakes being bred, just too many idiots breeding anything they can.
If you look at it, its actually not such a bad thing. We need these idiots to differentiate between good quality stock and low grade animals. I need these people anyway as people can usually see the difference straight away when you compare one of my coastals to a low grade coastal as an example.
Thanks, Dan
If you look at it, its actually not such a bad thing. We need these idiots to differentiate between good quality stock and low grade animals. I need these people anyway as people can usually see the difference straight away when you compare one of my coastals to a low grade coastal as an example.
Thanks, Dan
Firstly I agree there are some cowboy breeders that just breed anything together trying to make a quick dollar. There are also responsible breeders out there that have bred normal looking reptiles and some of these ''low grade animals'' have produced single gene modes of inheritance morphs and most of the ''high quality animals'' came from line breeding so at one stage they would of come from a ''lower quality animal''. Don't forget that some people just want a pet snake but cant justify paying $500 plus for a snake, if a $50 normal ''wild type'' reptile gets them in to keeping reptiles then I personally think its a good thing.
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