Just choked on my lunch reading this gem.
Breeding a Stimmy to a Spotted
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Just choked on my lunch reading this gem.
Redemption
Not so new Member
Not sure if srs. Most people end up coming back to the pure animals within the pet industry, what do you think happens to unwanted mixes? I don't know how much experience you have, but watching how the pet industry works, this is what happens.
Sean_L
Not so new Member
Haha. [MENTION=41835]Wokka[/MENTION] and [MENTION=41820]pythoninfinite[/MENTION]. I was just stirring really. The whole point of the comment was to show that there is always someone who has a different or 'minority' opinion, even if you think that isn't the case.
I don't agree with hybrids, etc, but at the same time, I already proposed a method by which keepers could do what they want while keeping myself an others like me happy. But it was pointed out that it would be too hard to implement (and I do agree) because people are selfish and useless at following rules or doing anything other than what they damn well please. Most are asses really, but the world sure would be a boring place if everyone was reasonable and responsible. ;-)
As for pointing out what I had written Jamie, thanks, but I'm the one who wrote it after all, so I'm well aware of what it said. Every one of my sentences had 'I' in it so I fully accept that it was my opinion. However the very fact that I had a differing opinion to Wokka's statement proves my statement. He didn't believe it was important to anyone that a snake was native. I proved him wrong as a living breathing example. Cant deny that.
You must have taken my post the wrong way Wokka. I don't deny discussion can be beneficial. What I deny is that its correct to assume, based solely on what you personally feel, that an idea or way of thinking is or isn't held by others.
Sometimes letting others have their way isn't in the best interests of anyone or anything other than those few, however. The world can't just be a free for all.
I don't agree with hybrids, etc, but at the same time, I already proposed a method by which keepers could do what they want while keeping myself an others like me happy. But it was pointed out that it would be too hard to implement (and I do agree) because people are selfish and useless at following rules or doing anything other than what they damn well please. Most are asses really, but the world sure would be a boring place if everyone was reasonable and responsible. ;-)
As for pointing out what I had written Jamie, thanks, but I'm the one who wrote it after all, so I'm well aware of what it said. Every one of my sentences had 'I' in it so I fully accept that it was my opinion. However the very fact that I had a differing opinion to Wokka's statement proves my statement. He didn't believe it was important to anyone that a snake was native. I proved him wrong as a living breathing example. Cant deny that.
You must have taken my post the wrong way Wokka. I don't deny discussion can be beneficial. What I deny is that its correct to assume, based solely on what you personally feel, that an idea or way of thinking is or isn't held by others.
Sometimes letting others have their way isn't in the best interests of anyone or anything other than those few, however. The world can't just be a free for all.
cement
Very Well-Known Member
This is what i really like about the long time members of this forum...there ability to accept when they are wrong and state it publicly +++++ to cement........................Ron
Hi Ron, thats great that you noticed mate and I do thank you for your kind words, but.....
I honestly don't atribute my personality in any way to being a long term member of this forum, ive arrived at who I am through very, very differnt means.
Cheers though, all the best.
ronhalling
Very Well-Known Member
I honestly did not mean to infer that who you are and what you know is directly attributable to your presence on this forum, more that you have enough heart and balls to admit you are wrong in the face of all those here that know they are wrong but just keep argueing a mute point in the presence of truth, sorry if it came across any other way.
...................Ron
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cement
Very Well-Known Member
yeah cheers mate, no offence taken, all good.
/s for sarcasm.
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I actually couldn't see anywhere where Wokka said keeping purebred native species was unimportant to any or all keepers. He did suggest that it wasn't necessarily a driver for the hobby as it stands today, and I agree with him. But there will always be people like myself, who have not the slightest interest in crossbreeds or crossbreeding, and yes, I admit I find it distasteful. I look at them the same way I see smokers these days - with all the info out there, and so many means to help smokers stop smoking... I can't help thinking "LOSERS!" The difference between crossbreeders and us is that we do no harm to the captive gene pool, the crossbreeders bugger it up for all of us because it is IMPOSSIBLE to keep track of the mongrels once they enter the pet trade. I make this statement with no preconception about the various taxonomic works, done or underway, which relate in particular to Australian pythons.
Jamie
Sean_L
Not so new Member
Wokka said:
"I don't think being native is a driver for keeping snakes."
I was simply stating that this is in fact the case, as its a driver for myself and I would suppose, [MENTION=38452]Newhere[/MENTION] also, as they brought up the issue to begin with. I would assume there are others that feel this way also, although I can't speak for them obviously.
But I agree whole heartedly with the rest of your post.
"I don't think being native is a driver for keeping snakes."
I was simply stating that this is in fact the case, as its a driver for myself and I would suppose, [MENTION=38452]Newhere[/MENTION] also, as they brought up the issue to begin with. I would assume there are others that feel this way also, although I can't speak for them obviously.
But I agree whole heartedly with the rest of your post.
Redemption
Not so new Member
I just don't want too see more animals going down the same track as most unwanted pets, like dogs. Mixed breeds seem to be the most unwanted at the end of the day.
Newhere
Well-Known Member
Yep that is correct Sean_L
And I'm sure for many others too...
And I'm sure for many others too...
I agree that being native is a driver for keeping snakes.(for some keepers). I should have written that i don't think being native is a significant driver for the whole hobby of keeping snakes.
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I truly think that the species purists are largely the older keepers like myself, who remember the struggles we had with the various state bureaucracies in the 80s & 90s, just to be able to keep snakes legally in this country. With the exception of WA & the NT, where a licensed wild-take is permitted, animals already held illegally were put on permits by means of amnesties etc. The people who held these animals would, I think, have first-hand experience of these critters in the bush, and like me, still see the connection between the reptile and its habitat. Because captive breeding is a relatively new phenomenon, their animals were always easily identified by species. The advent of easy captive breeding has led to the commodification of reptiles and a huge increase in "lounge-room herpetologists" who see their animals as quirky or "cool," and are not remotely interested in the natural history (you could read here "no respect for the natural history") of their critters - the only criterion is that their animals look "cool," and it's especially good if their animals look "cooler" than anyone else's. Indeed, the only interest they show in reptile physiology is when something goes wrong and they don't know how to deal with it because they don't know how reptiles work.
From what I read here on APS, after years of reading and watching, it's fairly easy to see the newcomers who actually take a deep interest in their charges, and are keen to learn all that they can, and those who treat them flippantly as some kind of gimmicky pets.
I fully understand that change is inevitable with just about everything in our lives, and during our lifetimes. I have always regarded the "purists" who breed like-to-like as doing no harm to anyone else in the hobby, but the cavalier cross-breeding being done "just because I can" is muddying the waters in which I myself live, and I have a right to object to that. It bemuses me that some cross-breeders have reached almost hero status just because they produced, by chance, some shiny new and desirable critter, or they were the first with money to get their hands on the newest illegally imported morph - certainly not because they were especially clever, just lucky or well-funded.
That's my rant for the day!
Jamie
From what I read here on APS, after years of reading and watching, it's fairly easy to see the newcomers who actually take a deep interest in their charges, and are keen to learn all that they can, and those who treat them flippantly as some kind of gimmicky pets.
I fully understand that change is inevitable with just about everything in our lives, and during our lifetimes. I have always regarded the "purists" who breed like-to-like as doing no harm to anyone else in the hobby, but the cavalier cross-breeding being done "just because I can" is muddying the waters in which I myself live, and I have a right to object to that. It bemuses me that some cross-breeders have reached almost hero status just because they produced, by chance, some shiny new and desirable critter, or they were the first with money to get their hands on the newest illegally imported morph - certainly not because they were especially clever, just lucky or well-funded.
That's my rant for the day
!Jamie
Spot on Jamie.
I don't like when taxonomists present us with "new species" that are unrecognizable in the field unless you take a DNA sample and have it analyzed. Equally, I don't like man-made morphs that one can't assign to species or to animals typical of certain localities. Like Jamie, I think I have the right to object to what the "creators" are doing to our wildlife. If anyone thinks it's not wildlife, go and tell the licensing departments.
I don't like when taxonomists present us with "new species" that are unrecognizable in the field unless you take a DNA sample and have it analyzed. Equally, I don't like man-made morphs that one can't assign to species or to animals typical of certain localities. Like Jamie, I think I have the right to object to what the "creators" are doing to our wildlife. If anyone thinks it's not wildlife, go and tell the licensing departments.
Sean_L
Not so new Member
[MENTION=41835]Wokka[/MENTION] That's fair enough. A much more agreeable way of putting it.
Frillmiester
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Newhere
Well-Known Member
Also some people just respect the animals for what they are and as they are and see no need for them to be changed by humans.
Some, maybe, but extremely few. The majority of people would prefer an albino snake or blindingly yellow and black Jungle more striking than anything you can find in the wild. Even the locality purist enthusiasts like myself would prefer the best looking individual rather than a typical example of a wild animal, and surely we'd all prefer an enthusiastic mouse feeder to something which wants to start on skinks. Virtually all of us would like to change the animals to make them better suited to captivity, whether or not that involves crossing localities/taxa.
I'm sure if you hatched a bright blue Carpet Python with green polka dots you'd be pretty thrilled.
Newhere
Well-Known Member
People keep animals for all different kinds of reasons and their reason for keeping will reflect their view on the matter. Simple as that.
I only have one python and that's all I want and I'm happy with it as a specimen of a pure locale and an example of what you would find in the wild. I respect it and I respect the time it's taken for them to evolve the patterns that they carry and I see no need for it to be any other way.
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