moosenoose
Legendary
I had this fella circling me this morning.....like a shark :lol: 
some elapid picts
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- aspidites melanocephalus aspidites ramsayi boiga irregularis demansia atra demansia olivacea dendrelaphis punctulata egernia cunninghami furina diadema hemiaspis signata hoplocephalus stephensii liasis olivaceus morelia bredli morelia carinata morelia spilota cheynei morelia spilota mcdowelli morelia spilota spilota notechis scutatus oxyuranus microlepidotus pseudechis colletti pseudechis porphyriacus pseudonaja nuchalis suta suta tropidechis carinatus vermicella vermiformis
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Sturdy
Very Well-Known Member
hay jamgo... awesome adders... are you selling any?
jamgo
Well-Known Member
yes but most are sold now
P
-Peter
Guest
It up to you Scott, obviously your monkey is doing the dancing here.
My comments were directed at redbellybite and taking things as truth without proof. I am happy to accept anecdotal evidence but in the end thats all it is and should not be qualified as fact even when it comes from an impeccable source. When I do talks I often end by telling the kids that everything I told them could be wrong. New information is always being found, facts change and herpers stretch the truth. Always check the data for yourself.
It is well document that RBBs with differing diets will have varying head widths in relation to overall size. I have seen it with captive specimens. It is logical to then assume that body mass and length could also vary. I hadn't really thought about it on a state by state basis but presumed it was terrain.
redbellybite
Almost Legendary
Peter , I am not gullible either ..hence me saying what I said ..if I just out right believed in what I had heard ,I wouldnt have bothered to ask in the first place .Scott's post was good enough for me to say if any other person queried about the same question,I now would reply that the 'possibillities' of rbbs's being shorter and stockier from the southern states are basically true ..I am aware of the truth stretchers and leg pullers of the herp world..but solid evidence on paper isnt always a need in my personal belief either.There are people on here ,that I trust enough to say it as such and be quite happy with their response..
P
-Peter
Guest
Some great animals in this thread. I'll post some of my rbbs soon.
Peter,
Quantified data is still data none the less, here say and such is just that, there are no peer reviews on internet sites including things like wikipedia etc, and certainly the data I presented above is what I have found to be relatively consistant, however the are always exceptions and the more specimens you examine the more robust the data set is and therefore the general accuracy of the overall picture. However While I do not expect anyone to listen to what i say or type (on face value alone) I would not state it, if it was not what my data had found.
I think that if people on a reptile site (regardless of which one) had to use their real names as opposed to hiding behind synonyms (I am not saying that you are doing this) then you would find a sharp drop in the amount of bull waste that seems to accumulate on forums. As people would be accountable for what they say. Sure post counts would drop, but so would the amount of waste to wade through.
I digress, ON Pseudechis porphyriacus, head width v body size I assume you are talking about Rick Shine's paper of evolution of P.p adapting their head to suit Rhinella?
I need to re read it (I have not read it recently) but I thought it would difficult to link head size shifts with the length of time that Rhinella has been in Australia, I mean if you look at the Rhinella release site and date (Gordonvale, Nov,1935 ) its only 83.5 years.
As the bufotoxin is very lethal (to most Australian snakes, Keelback are a recent invader from indonesia most likely 50,000 years ago and have evolved alongside native bufonids) and as snakes higher vertebrates I would think it would take quite awhile for a species to adapt/evolve to be able to survive with a reasonable ingestion on the toxin.
So to accept Shine's finding that toads have caused the significant evolution (head shape shift) of a higher vertebrate in as little as 27 odd generations I find possibly flawed. A possible answer could be that not all P.p pops are generalists but some are specialists (possibly mammal or squamate predators as opposed to anurans) and prior shifts within these populations have not only adapted their diet preferences but also their head shape.
Cheers,
Scott Eipper
Quantified data is still data none the less, here say and such is just that, there are no peer reviews on internet sites including things like wikipedia etc, and certainly the data I presented above is what I have found to be relatively consistant, however the are always exceptions and the more specimens you examine the more robust the data set is and therefore the general accuracy of the overall picture. However While I do not expect anyone to listen to what i say or type (on face value alone) I would not state it, if it was not what my data had found.
I think that if people on a reptile site (regardless of which one) had to use their real names as opposed to hiding behind synonyms (I am not saying that you are doing this) then you would find a sharp drop in the amount of bull waste that seems to accumulate on forums. As people would be accountable for what they say. Sure post counts would drop, but so would the amount of waste to wade through.
I digress, ON Pseudechis porphyriacus, head width v body size I assume you are talking about Rick Shine's paper of evolution of P.p adapting their head to suit Rhinella?
I need to re read it (I have not read it recently) but I thought it would difficult to link head size shifts with the length of time that Rhinella has been in Australia, I mean if you look at the Rhinella release site and date (Gordonvale, Nov,1935 ) its only 83.5 years.
As the bufotoxin is very lethal (to most Australian snakes, Keelback are a recent invader from indonesia most likely 50,000 years ago and have evolved alongside native bufonids) and as snakes higher vertebrates I would think it would take quite awhile for a species to adapt/evolve to be able to survive with a reasonable ingestion on the toxin.
So to accept Shine's finding that toads have caused the significant evolution (head shape shift) of a higher vertebrate in as little as 27 odd generations I find possibly flawed. A possible answer could be that not all P.p pops are generalists but some are specialists (possibly mammal or squamate predators as opposed to anurans) and prior shifts within these populations have not only adapted their diet preferences but also their head shape.
Cheers,
Scott Eipper
mysnakesau
Almost Legendary
waruikazi
Legendary
mark how long have you been keeping elapids? And how many do you have?
moosenoose
Legendary
Very nice Punjab
Pandora Pythons
Active Member
Tiger
That is a beautiful looking tiger mysnakesau.
What a fantastic photo and pose
JasonL
Almost Legendary
Hey Mark, nice snakes, hopefully they stick to chewing on rodents and not your hand..
Great Pics Slacker, love the Goldens, one of my favorite snakes...
As for the Blacksnake debate, I agree with Scott on the toad debate, though would like to point out that many snakes would need to be caught and measured / weighed in one given area to get an idea of average size. I know places in suburban Sydney (small parkland areas) where the avaerge size is around 5 feet, these parklands all have extensive reed beds and are crawling with Striped Marsh Frogs yet generally speaking around my house (Royal N.P), the average drops to around 4 feet, and am yet to see any approaching 6 feet.
Great Pics Slacker, love the Goldens, one of my favorite snakes...
As for the Blacksnake debate, I agree with Scott on the toad debate, though would like to point out that many snakes would need to be caught and measured / weighed in one given area to get an idea of average size. I know places in suburban Sydney (small parkland areas) where the avaerge size is around 5 feet, these parklands all have extensive reed beds and are crawling with Striped Marsh Frogs yet generally speaking around my house (Royal N.P), the average drops to around 4 feet, and am yet to see any approaching 6 feet.
mysnakesau
Almost Legendary
Pandora Pythons - he is absolutely gorgeous I loved him and he was as tame as a dog. His owner handled him so confidently and not once did the snake appear stressed or defensive at all.
FROGGIESrCUTEo_O
Well-Known Member
God this makes me love adders even more!!
They're so awesome!
They're so awesome!
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