some elapid picts

[pythons73]

One thing must be remembered that dead snakes can and have caused envenomations. Also muscle contractions can still cause jerking movements and even bites. Even dead snakes should be handled with care.
So a dead snake that has been dead for some time Scott can still do damage to you,what about if you accidently brushed your finger over the fangs,can that still envenomate you.Would you have any idea how long a elapid needs to be dead for the venom to be inactive.Now you mentioned this,i remember quite a few years back,i was only a teenager and i found a dead Brown,i was poking and proding around the mouth etc and remember opening the mouth with my hands,one of my fingers brushed past the fangs,after 40-50minutes my finger was tingling a little and i started to get a rash...Any help Scott would be greatly appreciated.......MARK

 

[Snake Catcher Victoria]

Good question Mark, i would like to know how long snake venom would be viable as well.
Im sure environmental influences would play a big part in the degradation of the protiens that make up the venom, but generally, unfrozen, how long can venom survive outside the snake?.
Years ago , i heard of a guy that had been bitten on his shoe / runner and not noticed it.
Weeks later, it is said, the venom re-animated when the shoe got wet and he was envenomated through a blister on his heel.
I called bull.... on the story at the time thinking no way venom would live that long outside the host.
Was I right?

 

[redbellybite]

I never touch the fangs with my hands ever ...and yeah would like to know exactly how long too ...I do realise in a fresh dead the risks are pretty well high but as was said in a decomposing one ,whats the go with the fang area?

 

[pythons73]

Spot on Baz,enviroment factors would play a huge part in this,ive tryed to find some information regarding this topic,but i came up zilch.So anyone with any knowledge on this subject that would kindly tell us would be appreciated.Im thinking of Jonno-Scott and theres many more out there.But in general i would think the first 24hours the venom would still be ok in a dead speciemen....By the way Baz sounds like you might of been wrong......MARK

 

[Duke]

I think the main point here is that venom is made up of peptides and enzymes, which are biological products.

I don't know of the shelf life of such proteins, nor if they have to remain at a certain temperature to prevent denaturing.
Can elapids inject venom when they are cool?

 

[wizz]

mmmmm more pics!!!!

 

[Snake Catcher Victoria]

I took some snakes outside for some pics today but these are the only pics worth putting up.
ill try again on the weekend.
He's a bit sad looking, waiting for his new skin to come through.

A nice pic of some grass with a snake in it.

Cheers

 

[redbellybite]

BAH HA HA love the 'GRASS' pic to bad that snake got in the way Baz...
he is gorgeous...

 

[Hemiaspis]

I think the main point here is that venom is made up of peptides and enzymes, which are biological products.

I don't know of the shelf life of such proteins, nor if they have to remain at a certain temperature to prevent denaturing.
Can elapids inject venom when they are cool?

Spot on Duke.

Many of the proteins in venom will denature when exposed to increased temperature and oxygen. However, as each venom is made up of several different components (both toxic and non-toxic) it is difficult to say which proteins would denature sooner than others. Unfortunately there is no easy "accurate" answer as to how long after a snake is dead, is it considered still dangerous. Venom caught in the fangs and ducts would certainly be far less susceptible to denaturing than venom exposed in an open environment.

It would be best to treat a dead elapid with caution.

We extract and store venoms for research purposes. To prevent denaturing, we store the venoms in liquid nitrogen at a temperature of -88 degrees.

All the Best

 

[redbellybite]

Well it would be interesting if someone with venom knowledge, maybe do a little field work ,see what comes about ...and I do respect elapids even dead ..never touch fangs with my fingers ..all though,truth telling ,I have been interested in actually how they feel and how sharp they are etc ...but certainly not game enough to give it that extra go

 

[-Peter]

CSL took venom residue from a field boot that had been struck by a taipan 12 (read twelve) years earlier. The venom was still as potent. Venom residue on a bag when coming in contact with broken skin or lesions can be passed into the body and result in envenomation..

 

[redbellybite]

WOW ..Peter a while back ...I shook out my bag ,after it had some fiesty vens in there ..EB and RBB'S ..I had them piggybacking ..(not in the same part of the bag tied in the middle ) anyway ..the dusty crap went into my right eye ,I gave it a bit of a rub ,and didnt think anything more about it ..over the next few hours, eye became sore and then over night my eye was puffed up like a balloon ..the whole eye closed...it was even swollen down to the cheekbone..I had some discomfort if I pushed in the surrounding puffed area..I went and got drops and cream to put in my eye ..it took a few days to settle to a point that I could open my eye ..it puss'd up and gunk oozed out ,lost a few eyelashes(have grown back) ..overall it took a good week and a half to come good ..when I asked about the possibility of actually getting dry venom in my eye ..no one was 100% sure if this was the case ..or if it had been simply snake poo dust ...so interesting you say that about the bag ...

 

[moosenoose]

I don't think weather or temperature factors would count one bit (in my humble, non-scientifically derived opinion). Air dried venom is just as dangerous as far as I know. When they used to dry it for anti-venom purposes there were massive risks due to inhaling the dust. I'd imagine those toxins would all still be there, it's just the liquid they are delivered in that's gone. I'm sure Dr Fry on Venomdoc.com would be more than happy to answer this question ( if it hadn't been answered on there already )

 

[smacdonald]

I don't think weather or temperature factors would count one bit (in my humble, non-scientifically derived opinion). Air dried venom is just as dangerous as far as I know.

It depends on how long the wet venom has been lying around. Drying it out as soon as it exits the fang will preserve it, leaving it in a beaker in the sun won't. As others have said, venom is a complex mixture of many components that will probably degrade at different rates.


Stewart

 

[pythons73]

It would be great if Dr Fry from Venomdoc would answer a few of these questions.How long the venom is still potent after the snake has died,ive heard different theories about different things like shirts,shorts etc being biten by a elapid and after some time,someone that used the shirt ended up with a rash,tingling in the body etc...So im interested in any theories or Facts about elapid venom....Any information will be greatly appreciated.....MARK

 

[Hemiaspis]

I don't think weather or temperature factors would count one bit (in my humble, non-scientifically derived opinion). Air dried venom is just as dangerous as far as I know. When they used to dry it for anti-venom purposes there were massive risks due to inhaling the dust. I'd imagine those toxins would all still be there, it's just the liquid they are delivered in that's gone. I'm sure Dr Fry on Venomdoc.com would be more than happy to answer this question ( if it hadn't been answered on there already )

Freeze dried venom is certainly just as toxic. However the freeze dry process is carried out in a temperature controlled, vacuum environment, which ensures the proteins are not denatured and a full profile of the venom can be obtained.

The main risk from inhaling dried venom is that exposure can lead to sensitivity. This can result in a life threatening anaphylaxis in the most serious cases.

All the Best.

 

[redbellybite]

So what do you guys think ..could this have been from dry venom dust getting in my eye ? or snake poo dust instead ..as there was a bit of that in there too ...

 

[Duke]

My guess, it's the nitrates in the dried poop that has irritated the eye.

 

[redbellybite]

even into the cheekbone ?..all that was puffed up and sore to touch

 

[redbellybite]

My guess, it's the nitrates in the dried poop that has irritated the eye.

Thats what I was led to believe ,and probably no doubt what it was ....But as you know the eye is a sensitive thing and you can absorb through your eye ..and after Peters post ,it got me curious ...as I said above ,the swelling is in my cheekbone,eye socket and that was as far as I could open my eye ,plus I had a headache but put that down to the pressure ...got me stumped ...either way becareful with snake poo too