Spider ball python

[No-two]

VERY interesting, so the first spider was a wild caught animal? Not produced in the hands of humans...

Alot of morphs originate in the wild.

 

[scottyo998]

Thanks for setting me straight then, I appreciate the actual helpful ones, not the ones that just say " you have no clue". My only reason I sag that it line breeding must have something to do with it is because animals dot just develop issues that are passed down for no reason. Surely the first jag wouldn't have shown issues as it would have come from 'healthy' parents. Which means at some point the line has developed this issue. Can someone please explain, if somehow this isn't thie case, what is, wihout just saying that its just a little quirk. Cheers

 

[blakehose]

Defects are also common in 'Cinnamon' morphs. Though instead of tremors, they often sufter vertebral kinks.

 

[junglepython2]

Thanks for setting me straight then, I appreciate the actual helpful ones, not the ones that just say " you have no clue". My only reason I sag that it line breeding must have something to do with it is because animals dot just develop issues that are passed down for no reason. Surely the first jag wouldn't have shown issues as it would have come from 'healthy' parents. Which means at some point the line has developed this issue. Can someone please explain, if somehow this isn't thie case, what is, wihout just saying that its just a little quirk. Cheers

The first Jag was due to a mutation, most mutations are not beneficial. The Jag one just happened to create animals with a reduced pattern which some consider desirable. The Neuro issues were also associated with it which obviously are not benefical. A mutation coming from healthy parents doesn't mean the mutations or offspring will be healthy and the first Jag almost certainly also had the neuro issues.

As Jags are a co-dom gene with the homozygous phenotype being lethal they are easily outcrossed and very little inbreeding takes place at all as it doesn't create more Jags as is the case with recessive conidtions such as albinism.

 

[D3pro]

Maybe someday someone will genetically engineer the Jag gene and take out the Neuro defect lol.

 

[MDSTIM]

The first Jag was due to a mutation, most mutations are not beneficial. The Jag one just happened to create animals with a reduced pattern which some consider desirable. The Neuro issues were also associated with it which obviously are not benefical. A mutation coming from healthy parents doesn't mean the mutations or offspring will be healthy and the first Jag almost certainly also had the neuro issues.

As Jags are a co-dom gene with the homozygous phenotype being lethal they are easily outcrossed and very little inbreeding takes place at all as it doesn't create more Jags as is the case with recessive conidtions such as albinism.

Hi junglepython2,

The explanation relating to jags and ball python neurological issues is very helpful, (good to see indepth information that you have provided and not just spiteful comments that some others prefer to make).

Further to your information doesn't there have to be something in it with small gene pools that people have been working with in the "States" and that combined with constant, excessive inbreeding has exacerbated the situation....your thoughts.

 

[junglepython2]

Hi junglepython2,

The explanation relating to jags and ball python neurological issues is very helpful, (good to see indepth information that you have provided and not just spiteful comments that some others prefer to make).

Further to your information doesn't there have to be something in it with small gene pools that people have been working with in the "States" and that combined with constant, excessive inbreeding has exacerbated the situation....your thoughts.

I don't think the gene pool in the states or Europe is as small as people think, and despite what people say it's not a closed system, animals are still getting smuggled over, plus as far as I'm aware they can import between the two continents. Plus Jag's have been outcrossed to everything imaginable so when you combine your bredli, coatals, jungles, diamonds, Md's and everyhting inbetween you end up with a pretty big gene pool, and being Co-dom trait, Jags themselves have never really been inbred.

The Neuro issues are tied up with the mutation itself, outcrossing to a "healthy" line doesn't remove it. Someone one day may strike it lucky and find another trait that can counteract the neuro issue but as the original problem has nothing to do with inbreeding, outcrossing won't necessarily fix it.

 

[NBLADE]

Defects are also common in 'Cinnamon' morphs. Though instead of tremors, they often sufter vertebral kinks.

i've never actually come across a kinked cinny, however it is common with caramel albinos, and eye defects were common in albino boa constrictors until people learnt not to breed albino to albino, but use a het or a pair of hets

VERY interesting, so the first spider was a wild caught animal? Not produced in the hands of humans...

all of the base morphs were wild caught origionally, all we have done is line bred to get brighter individuals, or crossed base morphs into each other to create multi gened animals, or proved out super forms of some morphs.

 

[byron_moses]

dosent help with the ball pythons they are wlaways breeding 2 co dom morphs together

 

[blakehose]

i've never actually come across a kinked cinny, however it is common with caramel albinos, and eye defects were common in albino boa constrictors until people learnt not to breed albino to albino, but use a het or a pair of hets.

Ah really, I think it was Cinnamon hah. I saw something about it just recently, may have been Brian Barzcyks latest video, but i'm not too sure. You know more about it than I do!