The Importance of Quarantine - New Outbreak of 'Sunshine Virus'
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cement
Very Well-Known Member
So the major outbreak at the ARP was not OPMV?
Is the general consensus now?
I see flaws in some peoples quarantine practice where they have a quarantine room separate to their collection. Especially with fairly intensive keeping. Where a snake has been quarantined for 3mths and all seems well but others have joined the room and only been in there for 2 weeks etc, they are coming and going at different times effectivily rendering the quarantine period invalid.
At a wildlife carers conference last year, a reptile vet stated that 13 mths should be the minimum quarantine period these days. With not much known about this one 13mths is a good time as it encompasses a full year and seasons where its possible the virus may lay dormant.
I wouldn't be surprised in the least if this virus didn't originate in the wild, then it would be there now.
Is the general consensus now?
I see flaws in some peoples quarantine practice where they have a quarantine room separate to their collection. Especially with fairly intensive keeping. Where a snake has been quarantined for 3mths and all seems well but others have joined the room and only been in there for 2 weeks etc, they are coming and going at different times effectivily rendering the quarantine period invalid.
At a wildlife carers conference last year, a reptile vet stated that 13 mths should be the minimum quarantine period these days. With not much known about this one 13mths is a good time as it encompasses a full year and seasons where its possible the virus may lay dormant.
I wouldn't be surprised in the least if this virus didn't originate in the wild, then it would be there now.
P
-Peter
Guest
So the last big outbreak, was that Sunshine virus?
Frozenmouse
Very Well-Known Member
scary stuff
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Fantazmic
Very Well-Known Member
Chris..I think they are referring to snake sneezes lol...which would make sense if it starts with RI symptoms....
P
Pythoninfinite
Guest
Yep - coughed, snorted or sneezed airborne droplets, which may or may not remain airborne for some time. The liquid component can evaporate and leave dust-like particles floating around in the air...
Jamie
ingie
Well-Known Member
Airborne particles. 
I would like to know if Sunshine is able to be overcome/carried by some individuals or is it 100% death rate for collections and individuals after exposure with no hope of any individuals having natural resistance. On one hand it would be scary to think that it had 100% fatality rate in exposed snakes. However, the thought of it being carried in to unsuspecting collections because a reptile has survived quarantine but remained contagious (like feline herpes or lorikeets with beak and feather disease) is even more scary.
Would a person be able to assume their collection was clean from the virus after say 1-2 years of having a closed collection without any deaths or signs of RI, and strict hygiene practices?
I would like to know if Sunshine is able to be overcome/carried by some individuals or is it 100% death rate for collections and individuals after exposure with no hope of any individuals having natural resistance. On one hand it would be scary to think that it had 100% fatality rate in exposed snakes. However, the thought of it being carried in to unsuspecting collections because a reptile has survived quarantine but remained contagious (like feline herpes or lorikeets with beak and feather disease) is even more scary.
Would a person be able to assume their collection was clean from the virus after say 1-2 years of having a closed collection without any deaths or signs of RI, and strict hygiene practices?
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W
wokka
Guest
Just assume that every disease is 100% fatal and quarantine accordingly. There are heaps of diseases about which are fatal to humans. Some people chose to live in a glass cage but most carry on with simple precautions the easiest of which is to wash your hands.Airborne particles.
I would like to know if Sunshine is able to be overcome/carried by some individuals or is it 100% death rate for collections and individuals after exposure with no hope of any individuals having natural resistance. Would a person be able to assume their collection was clean from the virus after say 1-2 years of having a closed collection without any deaths or signs of RI, and strict hygiene practices?
LOL You have a sinister mind Stevo, is the smuggling train running on time? LOL
Frozenmouse
Very Well-Known Member
Does it come from Sunshine in melbourne west?
P
-Peter
Guest
So its not the same virus as the last paramyxovirus. So all we have to do is ride it out. Dump your suspect animals on the market, keep your mouth shut and it'll all be okay in the long run. Worked for most people then, should work again.
I'm still bitter.
I'm still bitter.
cement
Very Well-Known Member
Yeah and with a name like sunshine, who wouldn't want it?
Wild~Touch
Very Well-Known Member
It would be interesting to know if "Sunshine" affects Morelia only or if any other snakes are at risk
Another thought: Could it be spread by substrate ? in a similiar way Legionnaires Disease is picked up from potting mix
Another thought: Could it be spread by substrate ? in a similiar way Legionnaires Disease is picked up from potting mix
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ingie
Well-Known Member
Depends what you want from your collection I suppose. If it is just a few pets then yeah sure, take it with a grain of salt. If I had an extensive collection with multi generational breeding plans and planed to be a reptile enthusiast for the rest of my days, I would be more inclined to treat my collection like a bubble boy in a glass cage.
It only takes one bad decision to bring these nasties home on your self/clothes, on your friends, or on new animals. If you did bring something like Sunshine virus home, I wonder how many people's quarantine procedures are actually executed well enough to prevent contaminating the rest of their collection. It sure pays to know how your future reptile provider conducts their collection, if that (truthful) information is available to you.
Fortunately it is much easier to keep a reptile collection in lock down than a person. I keep my sun conure in lock down to protect him from nasty diseases (mainly beak and feather) because I want to have him for a long time. People used to tease me for the lengths I would go to to not bring any bird germs home to Boo. They stopped teasing when one of the girls I knew said her cockatoo tested positive for beak and feather disease and I was the only one who knew for sure that my bird was safe.
Personally my life revolves around my animals so the extra work in keeping everything in lock down mode brings me more joy than inconvenience.
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W
wokka
Guest
I believe that a lot of diseases are already in our collections waiting for the conditions condusive to replication which allow the disease to overpower the animal and take over. A little like Myco in rats which is not a problem until stress levels rise to the level where myco can take over!
ingie
Well-Known Member
I agree with that for sure. I think there would be a lot of nasties lurking in people's collections right now. The horror!
When I first started keeping snakes in the mid 90s I met herpers who told me about Crypto, everyone had thought it was this hideous disease which would wipe out all their snakes, but it turned out not to be as bad as they thought. You never hear about crypto now, 'cause it's not cool. Then it was something else, I can't even remember, something fungal which was 'wiping out racks and racks of snakes in several collections' but hey, it isn't around now, but everyone was crapping themselves. Then it was IBD, OMG it was in Australia and we were all going to die. Then it was OPMV, and that name stuck for ages. Then it was some encephalitis thing, then it was this, then it was that, now it's Sunshine disease, and just like every other time since before I ever bought my first Children's Python in the mid 90s, a lot of people are going to take this one seriously, the vets will claim to have it worked out now, they'll charge everyone money for diagnoses, and then down the track it will be blizzard virus or hail virus or VROTS virus.
Every single time it is the same thing, they come up with a new name and know everything about it, and every single time, a few years later, 'oops, we were wrong, it isn't even in the country' or 'oops, it's not actually harmful'. Heck, I even remember the Salmonella scares. I remember a vet (I won't name the vet personally) speaking at a reptile meeting around 10 years ago telling us that she had been testing sick reptiles and found Salmonella, and this was the big monster we should be fearing. Well, of course you're going to find Salmonella if you look for it - it's supposed to be there, it's everywhere, and it's not going to hurt them. Normal, healthy humans have bacteria in their guts too (which help us and are supposed to be there), and if we decided to call them nasty we could cut up all the people who died of any sickness and say "ZOMG! We found bacteria x in ALL their bellies! It MUST be the problem!"
Perhaps this new Sunshine Virus will stick, perhaps it will be upgraded to the Heatwave Virus and we'll get even more scared. Here we go again. Whee. Call me cynical, but the same thing has been going around in circles for decades.
Quarantine is something most vocal people jump up and down about but almost no people properly practice. It's actually almost impossible for most people, and very few people try anyway. We jump up and down about quarantine but still have pet shops and expos, which make quarantine utterly impossible. Sunshine virus is the new monster, huh? It travels via aerosols, huh? So if it's in the same airspace as other reptiles, it can spread, huh? And you're going to quarantine how? If you've brought an animal from an expo or pet shop, you're not practicing quarantine. Does it matter? Maybe, maybe not.
What I've found very interesting over the years is that animal in pet shops, including mascot animals which stay in the same shop year after year seem strangely immune. Animals are brought into these shops from a wide spectrum of sources including wild animals and the 'dirtiest' collections from all over the country. Yet, we see these animals staying in good health year after year, as long as the husbandry is good. I know of plenty of collections which have animals freely coming and going and many people coming in to handle them, or in some cases, many of the animals are used in public displays. I've seen 10-20 year old snakes in these collections which are being exposed to everything possible.
On the other hand, I have seen collections where everything seems to die, nothing seems to stay healthy for long. The difference seems to be husbandry more than anything else.
I do think mites are an important husbandry issue and one which is relatively easy to prevent with a moderate quarantine effort. I can't say for sure if mites themselves are the only reason mites cause problems, or if it is because they very readily spread diseases between reptiles which usually don't get spread, or if it is actually more just that the type of people who don't keep mites away are also the type of people who don't have proper husbandry. Either way, there is a very strong correlation.
One thing I can say for sure is that year after year, decade after decade, the stuff that gets said is absolute blatant nonsense but people still jump on the bandwagon and follow it. The only consistent thing is that the new information is always obvious garbage right from the start, or the vets spin around after a few years and tell everyone it was garbage, because they have a new story to tell (which also turns out to be garbage and is usually obviously garbage from day one).
Despite the above, I personally stay on the paranoid side and do my best to maintain good quarantine. I have brought new snakes into my collection a total of twice in the last five years, I'm very selective with what I get and where I get it, and I quarantine as carefully as possible.
Frankly, I suspect I'm wasting my time other than in terms of keeping mites away, but I do it anyway. If we actually cared about quarantine we'd have to completely stop doing most of what we do, and most people are unwilling to do that. The constant nonsense of this whole issue is just ridiculous.
Anyway, I could rant all day, but I'm sure that's already more than most people want to bother reading :lol:
Have fun, believe the hype, stay paranoid, follow the rules, they know what they're talking about so pay attention, until they tell you they were wrong
Every single time it is the same thing, they come up with a new name and know everything about it, and every single time, a few years later, 'oops, we were wrong, it isn't even in the country' or 'oops, it's not actually harmful'. Heck, I even remember the Salmonella scares. I remember a vet (I won't name the vet personally) speaking at a reptile meeting around 10 years ago telling us that she had been testing sick reptiles and found Salmonella, and this was the big monster we should be fearing. Well, of course you're going to find Salmonella if you look for it - it's supposed to be there, it's everywhere, and it's not going to hurt them. Normal, healthy humans have bacteria in their guts too (which help us and are supposed to be there), and if we decided to call them nasty we could cut up all the people who died of any sickness and say "ZOMG! We found bacteria x in ALL their bellies! It MUST be the problem!"
Perhaps this new Sunshine Virus will stick, perhaps it will be upgraded to the Heatwave Virus and we'll get even more scared. Here we go again. Whee. Call me cynical, but the same thing has been going around in circles for decades.
Quarantine is something most vocal people jump up and down about but almost no people properly practice. It's actually almost impossible for most people, and very few people try anyway. We jump up and down about quarantine but still have pet shops and expos, which make quarantine utterly impossible. Sunshine virus is the new monster, huh? It travels via aerosols, huh? So if it's in the same airspace as other reptiles, it can spread, huh? And you're going to quarantine how? If you've brought an animal from an expo or pet shop, you're not practicing quarantine. Does it matter? Maybe, maybe not.
What I've found very interesting over the years is that animal in pet shops, including mascot animals which stay in the same shop year after year seem strangely immune. Animals are brought into these shops from a wide spectrum of sources including wild animals and the 'dirtiest' collections from all over the country. Yet, we see these animals staying in good health year after year, as long as the husbandry is good. I know of plenty of collections which have animals freely coming and going and many people coming in to handle them, or in some cases, many of the animals are used in public displays. I've seen 10-20 year old snakes in these collections which are being exposed to everything possible.
On the other hand, I have seen collections where everything seems to die, nothing seems to stay healthy for long. The difference seems to be husbandry more than anything else.
I do think mites are an important husbandry issue and one which is relatively easy to prevent with a moderate quarantine effort. I can't say for sure if mites themselves are the only reason mites cause problems, or if it is because they very readily spread diseases between reptiles which usually don't get spread, or if it is actually more just that the type of people who don't keep mites away are also the type of people who don't have proper husbandry. Either way, there is a very strong correlation.
One thing I can say for sure is that year after year, decade after decade, the stuff that gets said is absolute blatant nonsense but people still jump on the bandwagon and follow it. The only consistent thing is that the new information is always obvious garbage right from the start, or the vets spin around after a few years and tell everyone it was garbage, because they have a new story to tell (which also turns out to be garbage and is usually obviously garbage from day one).
Despite the above, I personally stay on the paranoid side and do my best to maintain good quarantine. I have brought new snakes into my collection a total of twice in the last five years, I'm very selective with what I get and where I get it, and I quarantine as carefully as possible.
Frankly, I suspect I'm wasting my time other than in terms of keeping mites away, but I do it anyway. If we actually cared about quarantine we'd have to completely stop doing most of what we do, and most people are unwilling to do that. The constant nonsense of this whole issue is just ridiculous.
Anyway, I could rant all day, but I'm sure that's already more than most people want to bother reading :lol:
Have fun, believe the hype, stay paranoid, follow the rules, they know what they're talking about so pay attention, until they tell you they were wrong
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