improvius
Not so new Member
Wow, I just heard about this. Did any of you know this person?
Mystery surrounds snake handler's death
-Imp
Mystery surrounds snake handler's death
-Imp
Tragedy
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I'm just waiting for the over the top response from the media :/
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I wonder if sxereturn knows the guy? Most likely considering he works there i guess.
ashley_morris22
Well-Known Member
what ever happend to him
Dicco
Very Well-Known Member
Ashley, Jonno(sxereturn) was banned from this site, for no good reason either.
I was quite upset when I heard about this yesterday as he and I had just recently started talking regularly, he said he had an interest in parthenogenesis and we'd just started discussing it, although I suppose now I'll never know what he was alluding to.
I was hoping that the media wouldn't get hold if the story and it would stay quiet, but this thread shows otherwise. Hopefully this won't get blown out of proportion as that could mean tighter restrictions on keeping large snakes, particularly scrubbies. As they said, it is not considered fact that the snake was related to his death, and he also had consumed a large amount of alcohol.
And yes, sxereturn worked with him, but for some reason was banned from APS.
I was hoping that the media wouldn't get hold if the story and it would stay quiet, but this thread shows otherwise. Hopefully this won't get blown out of proportion as that could mean tighter restrictions on keeping large snakes, particularly scrubbies. As they said, it is not considered fact that the snake was related to his death, and he also had consumed a large amount of alcohol.
And yes, sxereturn worked with him, but for some reason was banned from APS.
Re: RE: Tragedy
That's not quite true, Dicco. No-one is banned for "no good reason". He might not have agreed with the reason, but none of the moderators is waiting to ban someone for the fun of it!
We try to be fair in the application of the rules. If a majority of the moderators agrees, then penalties are applied for breaches of the site rules. No single moderator is going to take action against a user without consultation with other moderators, and we always discuss the situation first, unless it is a blatant, serious offence.
Basically, the way it works is :
1st offence = warning
2nd offence = 2 day suspension
3rd offence = 2 week suspension
4th offence = loss of membership.
We have all agreed that we will try to remain impartial and apply the rules fairly and without bias (which is sometimes difficult, but we DO try!
).
Dicco said:
sdaji said:
That's not quite true, Dicco. No-one is banned for "no good reason". He might not have agreed with the reason, but none of the moderators is waiting to ban someone for the fun of it!
We try to be fair in the application of the rules. If a majority of the moderators agrees, then penalties are applied for breaches of the site rules. No single moderator is going to take action against a user without consultation with other moderators, and we always discuss the situation first, unless it is a blatant, serious offence.
Basically, the way it works is :
1st offence = warning
2nd offence = 2 day suspension
3rd offence = 2 week suspension
4th offence = loss of membership.
We have all agreed that we will try to remain impartial and apply the rules fairly and without bias (which is sometimes difficult, but we DO try!
).
Dicco
Very Well-Known Member
RE: Re: RE: Tragedy
The thing is he was never given a suspention.
The thing is he was never given a suspention.
RE: Re: RE: Tragedy
That's true, Dicco. However, these moderation methods have only been in force for the last month or so. Prior to that, we had no firm guidelines. However, I'm sure the situation was discussed by moderators before action was taken. The procedures I discussed (above) are now the S.O.P. for moderators, unless it is a VERY serious offence. Even then, a member may only be suspended until it can be discussed amongst the moderators.
Remember that we are not online 24/7 (we have lives too!), so sometimes it can take a while before a majority have the opportunity to give their opinions.
That's true, Dicco. However, these moderation methods have only been in force for the last month or so. Prior to that, we had no firm guidelines. However, I'm sure the situation was discussed by moderators before action was taken. The procedures I discussed (above) are now the S.O.P. for moderators, unless it is a VERY serious offence. Even then, a member may only be suspended until it can be discussed amongst the moderators.
Remember that we are not online 24/7 (we have lives too!
), so sometimes it can take a while before a majority have the opportunity to give their opinions.RE: Re: RE: Tragedy
Yes Erik's death was a tragedy whatever the reason. But as Sdaji stated the media are having a field day. If we are not carefull there could be repucutions that effect many of us.
This site is open to public viewing and we should endeavour not to give the media any more ammo by discussing the tragedy here on this thread. Please for the sake of the hoby, and for respect for Erik, try not to discuss or speculate what happened in open threads.
Fuscus, I think you did the right thing locking the other thread, but I wish you would also delete it from public veiwing.
Yes Erik's death was a tragedy whatever the reason. But as Sdaji stated the media are having a field day. If we are not carefull there could be repucutions that effect many of us.
This site is open to public viewing and we should endeavour not to give the media any more ammo by discussing the tragedy here on this thread. Please for the sake of the hoby, and for respect for Erik, try not to discuss or speculate what happened in open threads.
Fuscus, I think you did the right thing locking the other thread, but I wish you would also delete it from public veiwing.
herptrader
Very Well-Known Member
RE: Re: RE: Tragedy
The suggestion in the the evening news which I find a bit of a worry is that the scrubbies had free range of his home which to me is irresponsible no matter how well behaved they usually are. Combine this with the other suggestion that he was completely blotto and tradgedy is a possible result.
The way this may effect the rest of us is that it can create preasure on the law makers to get certain species banned from private herpetoculturists. This is already the case in NSW were salties are not allowed, I assume, because they are considered too dangerous.
If you look at what has happened in many parts of the US large pythons and venemous reptiles have been banned in many places. IMHO this has come from the bad example set by people who chose to keep boas and other large snakes free ranging in their homes with the inevitable result.
If the herpers of Australia wish to be allowed to continue to keep animals that are dangerous if not suitably handled then I consider it inevitable that eventually there will be quite a few species that are commonly kept now that we will not be allowed to legally keep.
It is important that all of us a seen to be responsible and avoid situations where accidents are waiting to happen.
The suggestion in the the evening news which I find a bit of a worry is that the scrubbies had free range of his home which to me is irresponsible no matter how well behaved they usually are. Combine this with the other suggestion that he was completely blotto and tradgedy is a possible result.
The way this may effect the rest of us is that it can create preasure on the law makers to get certain species banned from private herpetoculturists. This is already the case in NSW were salties are not allowed, I assume, because they are considered too dangerous.
If you look at what has happened in many parts of the US large pythons and venemous reptiles have been banned in many places. IMHO this has come from the bad example set by people who chose to keep boas and other large snakes free ranging in their homes with the inevitable result.
If the herpers of Australia wish to be allowed to continue to keep animals that are dangerous if not suitably handled then I consider it inevitable that eventually there will be quite a few species that are commonly kept now that we will not be allowed to legally keep.
It is important that all of us a seen to be responsible and avoid situations where accidents are waiting to happen.
RE: Re: RE: Tragedy
This is a clear case of false information being dispensed. An all too common practice.
Erik's snakes were in secure, locked cages, they were not free range at the time, or at any point in the past.
I agree with bigguy when he says the other thread should be removed from public view and perhaps the topic should be left alone here at APS, at least for the time being. If the threads are not locked, please, don't post anything without good reason and most importantly, don't get involved with the speculation.
This is a clear case of false information being dispensed. An all too common practice.
Erik's snakes were in secure, locked cages, they were not free range at the time, or at any point in the past.
I agree with bigguy when he says the other thread should be removed from public view and perhaps the topic should be left alone here at APS, at least for the time being. If the threads are not locked, please, don't post anything without good reason and most importantly, don't get involved with the speculation.
cwarren72
Very Well-Known Member
RE: Re: RE: Tragedy
I think it would be a sad state of affairs if we found ourselves in a situation here that this or any other matter which has been made public can not be discussed. The last time I checked we were living in and fighting for a democratic country? or have we become a communist country here and I hadn't realised? anyway the thing is wether or not we do or don't disuss the situation here is totoally irrelivant as the public being fed by the media will form their own opinions on the subject and in fact if we were discuss the manner as the hobbyist and professionals that we are then we could if anything shed some differing points of view onto the subject. Anyway that's what I think. As for Sxreturn??? well people either liked him or hated himand well I definately didn't like him. If you think that he was banned for nothing then you obviously haven't noticed anything he has said and done over the past year or so? I constantly would ask for clarification off the mods about things he would say as I have felt for a long time that he should have gone as he has on several occasions rubbished on this site and the Mods themselves. He would agree with anyone and everyone who would also makes comments to the same. The rules for life are pretty simple folks, if you don't like something that is around you and you can't change it then leave? no one is forced to come into this site nor are they forced to remain members but they have to abey some simple rules. Ask yourselves how would you feel if you invited someone into your home and then starter trashing it by telling you how crap it is and everything you loved in that house was ****? well it is along the same lines. That again is just the way I see it.
I think it would be a sad state of affairs if we found ourselves in a situation here that this or any other matter which has been made public can not be discussed. The last time I checked we were living in and fighting for a democratic country? or have we become a communist country here and I hadn't realised? anyway the thing is wether or not we do or don't disuss the situation here is totoally irrelivant as the public being fed by the media will form their own opinions on the subject and in fact if we were discuss the manner as the hobbyist and professionals that we are then we could if anything shed some differing points of view onto the subject. Anyway that's what I think. As for Sxreturn??? well people either liked him or hated himand well I definately didn't like him. If you think that he was banned for nothing then you obviously haven't noticed anything he has said and done over the past year or so? I constantly would ask for clarification off the mods about things he would say as I have felt for a long time that he should have gone as he has on several occasions rubbished on this site and the Mods themselves. He would agree with anyone and everyone who would also makes comments to the same. The rules for life are pretty simple folks, if you don't like something that is around you and you can't change it then leave? no one is forced to come into this site nor are they forced to remain members but they have to abey some simple rules. Ask yourselves how would you feel if you invited someone into your home and then starter trashing it by telling you how crap it is and everything you loved in that house was ****? well it is along the same lines. That again is just the way I see it.
improvius
Not so new Member
Sorry, didn't mean to re-open a mess here. In any case, my condolences to his friends and family.
-Imp
-Imp
SnakeWrangler
Very Well-Known Member
Re: RE: Re: RE: Tragedy
As I said before, I hope the snake is not responsible, but really what are the chances its not?? I don't want to disrespect this man, but if it happened due to his irresponsibility then we need to been seen to stand up and say so, if we want to stop things like this from limiting our ability to keep these beautiful creatures we must be seen to not accept the actions of irresponsible keepers.
Now with that said, we do not have the cold hard facts, the possibility remains that it was an accident that had nothing to do with the snake, and if that is the case then I feel for this guy even more than I do now. I am sure in a day or two we will know for sure, you can bet that if the snake was responsible this is when the proverbial poo will hit the fan.
As cwarren said, this topic will be discussed, wouldn't you rather that people from our hobby get to at least have something to say rather than just hide and pretend it never happened. Trust me, no one else is going to stand up for us, that is for sure!!
I completely agree...cwarren72 said:
As I said before, I hope the snake is not responsible, but really what are the chances its not?? I don't want to disrespect this man, but if it happened due to his irresponsibility then we need to been seen to stand up and say so, if we want to stop things like this from limiting our ability to keep these beautiful creatures we must be seen to not accept the actions of irresponsible keepers.
Now with that said, we do not have the cold hard facts, the possibility remains that it was an accident that had nothing to do with the snake, and if that is the case then I feel for this guy even more than I do now. I am sure in a day or two we will know for sure, you can bet that if the snake was responsible this is when the proverbial poo will hit the fan.
As cwarren said, this topic will be discussed, wouldn't you rather that people from our hobby get to at least have something to say rather than just hide and pretend it never happened. Trust me, no one else is going to stand up for us, that is for sure!!
RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Tragedy
Yes guys, we do live in a Democracy, but alas we have no say in the laws governing animals that are loathed by the general public. Wouldnt the media have a field day reading comments stating we as a group of herps agree there are irresponsible keepers out there with dangerous snakes and we are seperating ourselves from them. Whos to say who is responsible or not. We are all tared with the same brush.
Years ago in SA there were 3 Taipan bites to keepers in several weeks. Result due to media response, Taipans were banned. In the US the same has happened in many states regarding venomous species and large Boids. And dont forget a little shooting in Tasmania by one irresponsible fellow. Result all semi auto guns banned due to media pressure Its going to happen hear if we are not carefull.
I again ask please do not discuss this subject or speculate what happened on this open forum. If you have to talk about it us the PM's that the media can not read. We do not need to give the media any more ammo that could and probably will be used to condem our hobbies
Yes guys, we do live in a Democracy, but alas we have no say in the laws governing animals that are loathed by the general public. Wouldnt the media have a field day reading comments stating we as a group of herps agree there are irresponsible keepers out there with dangerous snakes and we are seperating ourselves from them. Whos to say who is responsible or not. We are all tared with the same brush.
Years ago in SA there were 3 Taipan bites to keepers in several weeks. Result due to media response, Taipans were banned. In the US the same has happened in many states regarding venomous species and large Boids. And dont forget a little shooting in Tasmania by one irresponsible fellow. Result all semi auto guns banned due to media pressure Its going to happen hear if we are not carefull.
I again ask please do not discuss this subject or speculate what happened on this open forum. If you have to talk about it us the PM's that the media can not read. We do not need to give the media any more ammo that could and probably will be used to condem our hobbies
Fuscus
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??? Taipans are not banned in SA, were they banned in NSW?
I agree with bigguy that this incident may affect our hobby but we do need to discuss it, in particular we need to raise the safety aspects. Pollies are unlikly to base any "decision" on what we say, but there could be pressure from others to ban the species
Anyhow if you go here you can read 12 conficting versions of the story
http://news.google.com.au/news?hl=e...page/0,5478,15149206%255E662,00.html&filter=0
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