Varanus tristis taxonomy & locales

[Pilbarensis]

WA definitely has quite a diverse array of locales, thanks - I wasn't quite sure how the locales and colour forms worked in regards to WA.
So I'm thinking in regards to locales:
SW Western Australia - primarily more black
W Western Australia - bit of a mix?
NW Western Australia - basically the Hamersleys/Cichesters
NNW Western Australia - As above, bit of an NT influence
Central Western Australia - Similar to NT animals with a bit of the SW animals thrown in?

Please correct if I'm wrong, I'm not very sure about this.

 

[Echiopsis]

Hamersley Range adult, Alice Spings adult and a juvenile Hamersley. Really should take more pics of these guys, pity they're such a pain is the ****.

Its not easy to label the areas as such, they still vary even within those regions. Darker in the south is about the only consistent trait I've seen.

 

[Stevo2]

@ Albino - PM Sent.

@ Stevo - Haha. Stunning little orientalis those maggies. Where you heading btw? I'm assuming up north.

Based in Townsville Haven't done much herping up here though and really need to get out more!


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

 

[nathancl]

There are a few undescribed species currently lumped within tristis.

The second lot of tristis are typical of the central nt/alice springs type whereas the ones you bought as "Alice springs" animals look more like animals from the south of their range in SA.

There has been some study into the genetics and validity of the ssp orientalis however as Scott mentioned unfortunately specimens from the south east of Queensland where omitted therefore rendering the work fairly inconclusive. Tristis across various different locations did not show to have any major differences genetically.

Animals from east Arnhem land certainly look a bit different to your tristis you get around Darwin. Specimens I have examined suggest to me that Queensland has the most variation between "types" or "locales".

Comparing a cape York to a SEQ you can see just in pure size difference of adults that they are not quite the same. SEQ animals tails show very strong keeling of the scales as opposed to nth qld animals having a more compressed/less spinose tail. Just one of the few things that show differently between populations.

Tistis are an awesome monitor. From all locales they are favourites.

There is currently a lot of pure local lines of tristis being worked with in captivity.

 

[geckodan]

It wasn't just the Eidsvold animals that were omitted, it was the whole east coast. Not a single specimen that should be considered as V.t.orientalis was sampled. The sampled specimens were from every other corner of the range and were shown to be genetically similar across the entire range despite considerable colour variations and were all considered to be V. t. tristis.
In my opinion, only those small specimens that have an obvious temporal stripe, clear body ocelli that extends onto the head with a minimal change in colour and an unpatterned throat, should be classified as the Freckled Monitor V. t. orientalis.

 

[imported_Varanus]

I really like the V.t.tristis that have these markings/colours, im in the process of finding a breeder that has this form. I think the photo was taken in Broken Hill. Is this a typical patterned tristis tristis found in that area?

View attachment 275828

Looks very similar to a small "colony" of animals I've seen several years running from Mutawintji Nat Park (Homestead Gorge ) in Far West NSW. recently, I've found similar at Gundabooka Nat Park (also NSW). Though the person credited with the photo resides in SA so this animal could be Flinders Ranges(?). The first pic Chri5 posted looks typical of an AS animal to me. Interesting topic.

 

[geckodan]

I have a few V.T.Tristis that look like (colour & size) what I would call the 'usual' animal, see below:

However I picked this pair up below (who I think are both actually females) that were sold to me as V.T.Orientalis, they appear different to the 'usual' V.T.Orientalis but are smaller than the animal above, see below:

What do you think, are they V.T.Orientalis?

I would consider both the upper and lower animals to be V. t. tristis - they are the style of animal that the Americans think are orientalis. I don't believe that there is any real orientalis in the US.

 

[Pilbarensis]

Out of curiosity Dan, why? What do you base your claim on? Not saying it isn't correct just trying to get a better understanding of when it comes to identifying the two subspecies.

 

[cadwallader]

Any more information on this paper searched for it can't find the one your talking about any help authors, publishers or title?
keen to have a read

 

[eipper]

No freckling on the head. Colour and pattern variation can be an indicator for different species but in the case of tristis I think it is a geographical cline rather than speciation. I think there may be a couple of cryptic species currently lumped under V. t. orientalis, but without having looked more closely at these and seeing the genetics I will reserve my judgment at this time.

cheers
scott

 

[Echiopsis]

A Molecular phylogeny of the Australian monitor lizards (Squamata: Varanidae) inferred from mitochondrial DNA sequences. Fitch, Goodman, Donnellan

Wouldn't mind a read if anyone has it. E-mail [email protected]
Cheers

 

[geckodan]

Out of curiosity Dan, why? What do you base your claim on? Not saying it isn't correct just trying to get a better understanding of when it comes to identifying the two subspecies.

As written above - only those small specimens that have an obvious temporal stripe, clear body ocelli that extends onto the head with a minimal change in colour and an unpatterned throat, should be classified as the Freckled Monitor V. t. orientalis. This is based on the key features that differentiate specimens from the two type localities and are consistent with field sightings.

 

[Pilbarensis]

Alright thanks Dan.
Cheers

 

[eipper]

I sent this to you months back mate want it again?

 

[Echiopsis]

I sent this to you months back mate want it again?

I thought I'd read the introduction then put it aside for later. Cant find the original e-mail anywhere, farked if I know. Yeah, wouldnt mind it again if you have it handy mate.

Cheers

 

[geckodan]

I lost my copy in the meltdown - I'll grab another copy thanks.

 

[Chris]

I would consider both the upper and lower animals to be V. t. tristis

That's what I originally thought Dan, they look very similar to my other T.Tristis (top pic), except that they're significantly smaller (like 30%) & have ocelli running up onto their head whereas my larger ones don't, they have the full black head. But as I said in my first post they don't look like the 'usual' T.Orientalis either.

 

[yewherper]

So I have been reading this thread and looking at our guys black heads. I was wondering what type mine is?
I got told he was V.tristis tristis. But i guess if you guys could maybe have a guess at locallity of him?
He doesnt really change colour much, he is few years old.
Sorry if the pic's dont help.
Thanks