What is the point of a Licence

[beeman]

I am not anti Ven owning...each to their own...my pythons are relatively harmless and wont end me up in hospital costing the TAXPAYER thousands of dollars in hospital fees. As I stated, using a sliding scale of experience for ownership in NSW the theory is that you gain experience in lower order snakes building up to more dangerous vens. You cant go out on day 1 and purchase a TAIPAN on a basic licence.

I am not anti experienced owners having elapids but to me it is not worth the risk. I know with my "boring" pythons I can comfortably clean and upkeep their enclosure without risk of serious injury...not so with elapids..particularly the more aggressive variety.

I can see where the adrenalin rush would be for owning and keeping elapids would exist but for me there are other ways of me getting a thrill. I have friends who own them...one of them has them for demonstration and education purposes...several of these people have commented that if their jobs didnt rely on them they probably would not keep elapids as it is not worth the risk...but each to their own.

It would be such a boring world if we all agreed on everything and only kept the one species of animals/reps etc.

You still are way off mate with you understanding of vens and those of us that choose to keep them and your remarks show this.

You do realise that a bite from a python can cause you to spend time in hospital on the
"Tax Payer" with the likes of needing stiches from severe bite to blood poisoning or a selmonella infection just to name a few. :shock:

We are able to clean and maintain our enclosures just as easy as you do a python enclosure by removal of the animal to a holding tub as is the nornal practice.

And lastly the illusion you seem to have that ven owners have these animals for the
"adrenalin rush is totaly missguided and wrong for the majority of the people that own
vens.

Yes this is off topic but it was you that made the point of saying that only demonstrators
and educators should be allowed vens.

 

[moosenoose]

I am a relatively new python keeper...and pythons from what I have seen are much slower than elapids at striking. My Darwin has bitten 3 times in one go one morning (and that was when the temp was low first thing in the morning and I was brand new at keeping)....I now know to not go near him until he is back at ideal temp range as he is a little cranky then and was also close to shed.

Had I been a young, reckless fool in Victoria (not saying all elapid keepers are fools) my first snake could have been an elapid and I could have been a statistic. You have to admit this hobby does attract a few cowboys and what better way to show off your testosterone but to brag to your mates you own the most venomous snake in the world. :lol:

To those keepers who own elapids and have never been bitten I take my hat off to you...I am far to chicken to do so and also know my limitations on a reaction/awareness scale are not up to speed to own an elapid...pythons scare me enough

I'd lay money down that you wouldn't be as complacent with your python if you knew it could stick you in hospital! Besides, some vens tend to have a better attitude than your typical python.

As far as bragging rights go, it'd be great if 99% of my friends and relatives understood why I keep some of the animals I do, because that 99% think I'm more of an idiot than a big-balled gorilla! :lol:

 

[moosenoose]

Ps: I'm also not one bit worried about the tax payer footing the bill for a bite I may recieve. I already foot the bill for the 100's of thousands of smokers who stick themselves into the public hospital system each year, the road trauma stats and countless of other idiotic things people do each year...... Why should I be discriminated against????? :lol: :lol:

 

[karasha]

maybe one day when australia is really up **** creek withput a paddle we might be the source for all the DNA that might be need to replace our wild populations, as many of the commonly kept animals are threatened in the wild. zoos have a limited stock and variety of genetics. so as we all record anf report what we keep and breed these animals may oneday be our savior.
on the flip side maybe we should have a similar system for dogs and cats as there are still thousand being euthanised yearly because of unwanted breeding.

 

[ecosnake]

I have asked that for many years, I understand the concept of it but really there’s that many loop holes, it cant be 100% policed, the budget for NPWS has been slashed and continues to be slashed. Its just one of the way that they can being in some money guess.

 

[dazzarama]

if we didnt have a licence there would be no snakes in the wild

 

[LegsDiamond]

A licensing system only works if the Government department is actively involved and does their job properly. It seems there is massive amounts of evidence to suggest they are not doing so.

 

[beatlloydy]

You still are way off mate with you understanding of vens and those of us that choose to keep them and your remarks show this.

You do realise that a bite from a python can cause you to spend time in hospital on the
"Tax Payer" with the likes of needing stiches from severe bite to blood poisoning or a selmonella infection just to name a few. :shock:

We are able to clean and maintain our enclosures just as easy as you do a python enclosure by removal of the animal to a holding tub as is the nornal practice.

And lastly the illusion you seem to have that ven owners have these animals for the
"adrenalin rush is totaly missguided and wrong for the majority of the people that own
vens.

Yes this is off topic but it was you that made the point of saying that only demonstrators
and educators should be allowed vens.

Mate...if you CAREFULLY read my post I was having a go at cowboy ven owners who could in theory get theirs on a basic licence in some states and have ZERO experience in snake handling...as I said if you own them and dont get bitten I take my hat off...dont get so upset...I must have really got up you there...BTW stitches dont need to be done in hospital...a local GP should be the one to do this...far too many people present themselves at casualty for minor issues...whereas a bite from a ven is a MINIMUM of 48 hours in hospital (unless you check yourself out forcibly) and possibly up to 6 weeks if side effects.

If you want to own vens..go for it...all I am saying is dont expect me to have to subsidise those who get bitten. If you dont ever get bitten and have no probs with Vens then this post is not aimed at you. A forum is a democratic process to talk and vent frustration and that is all I was doing.

I believe we should move to a 100% user pays and if you keep vens then if you are bitten the taxpayers should not have to foot the bill..same deal with adventurers such as base jumpers etc. We should all have insurance and any rescues/treatment should be charged back to the individual. Thats my take on life...agree or dont disagree...I wont lose any sleep...all water off this little black ducks back to me.

Oh yeah...BTW...I dont regard stitches as a serious injury so you are still way off the mark comparing keeping pythons to vens....and I still think NSW licencing is the best...not cos I live here...but cos it just makes good sense to try and force people to have more experience when owning more dangerous species.

Oh..and I also agree...why should we subsidise smokers or obese people either. Everyone in society needs to take responsibility for their own actions whether it be keeping dangerous reptiles to lifestyle choices...how this tied into licencing I dont know...probably doesnt...but a rant tends to do that

 

[Bec137]

Wouldn't it make more sense for there to be a national licensing system? ie. all states/territories have the same rules for keeping/selling/vens etc? How come we don't have something like this?

What happens if you were to have a bunch of reptiles and were to move to another state? Is there a certain amount of time to transfer licenses and stuff?

 

[beatlloydy]

Wouldn't it make more sense for there to be a national licensing system? ie. all states/territories have the same rules for keeping/selling/vens etc? How come we don't have something like this?

What happens if you were to have a bunch of reptiles and were to move to another state? Is there a certain amount of time to transfer licenses and stuff?

Yep...buried amongst my "rants" was this exact statement. You need an import/export permit from both sides of the fence. A waste of resources on all parties behalf...another reason why state governments should be abolished

 

[tooninoz]

If you want to own vens..go for it...all I am saying is dont expect me to have to subsidise those who get bitten. If you dont ever get bitten and have no probs with Vens then this post is not aimed at you. A forum is a democratic process to talk and vent frustration and that is all I was doing.

I believe we should move to a 100% user pays and if you keep vens then if you are bitten the taxpayers should not have to foot the bill..same deal with adventurers such as base jumpers etc. We should all have insurance and any rescues/treatment should be charged back to the individual.

Oh..and I also agree...why should we subsidise smokers or obese people either. Everyone in society needs to take responsibility for their own actions whether it be keeping dangerous reptiles to lifestyle choices...how this tied into licencing I dont know...probably doesnt...but a rant tends to do that

That's some of the strangest stuff I've ever read on this forum. That truly is saying something.
You pay taxes, taxes are allocated to a myriad of things. Schools, hospitals etc etc and sometimes, To Things You Don't Like. What's the problem? You are paying the bloody thing anyway so what does it matter? A bomb for Afghanistan, relocation costs for Dennis Ferguson, flowers for the Childrens Hospital.....
Perhaps you could write a list of things You Don't Want Your Taxes Funding and send it to your local member? Let me know if you succeed.

 

[LegsDiamond]

That's some of the strangest stuff I've ever read on this forum. That truly is saying something.
You pay taxes, taxes are allocated to a myriad of things. Schools, hospitals etc etc and sometimes, To Things You Don't Like. What's the problem? You are paying the bloody thing anyway so what does it matter? A bomb for Afghanistan, relocation costs for Dennis Ferguson, flowers for the Childrens Hospital.....
Perhaps you could write a list of things You Don't Want Your Taxes Funding and send it to your local member? Let me know if you succeed.

I see his point about venomous keepers footing the bill. Not only that but I would hate to think that some poor child may miss out on anti-venom because a private keeper who wanted to be a tough guy and free handle used it all.

 

[Beardieboy]

the licencing system is good for controlling the pet shop trade of reptiles, it means that people can't just decide one day to get a snake or lizard when they see one in the window as they need to wait to get a licence, and often that is enough to put them off the idea of an impulse buy.

 

[garycahill]

I thought the price of the snake in the window at a pet store was enough to put off impulse buyers.

 

[potato matter]

I have regrettably done some impulse buying several times in a pet shop. The 1st time, i bought 3 betta splendens, and now have babies comming out f my ears, and the 2nd time, I bought all the baby quail at my petshop cause some guy was gonna eat them, but they were far to cute for food. Impulse buying is just so, thrilling i guess, thats why there is a licence waitig period i guess...

 

[beatlloydy]

That's some of the strangest stuff I've ever read on this forum. That truly is saying something.
You pay taxes, taxes are allocated to a myriad of things. Schools, hospitals etc etc and sometimes, To Things You Don't Like. What's the problem? You are paying the bloody thing anyway so what does it matter? A bomb for Afghanistan, relocation costs for Dennis Ferguson, flowers for the Childrens Hospital.....
Perhaps you could write a list of things You Don't Want Your Taxes Funding and send it to your local member? Let me know if you succeed.

Look...it was a rant...it is like getting it off your chest...I know what I say will not have one iota of a difference and laws etc are made to protect all whether we agree or not...but the goverments talk about moving to a user pays system but in reality it isnt.

I have to again stress I am not having a go at serious, experienced ven keepers. Just the inexperienced impulse buyers who could get into vens due to lax licencing laws..and I am definitely not saying I am experienced either in this field. It was merely a rant based on a series of observations which has been taken way out of context.

 

[baxtor]

Look...it was a rant...it is like getting it off your chest...I know what I say will not have one iota of a difference and laws etc are made to protect all whether we agree or not...but the goverments talk about moving to a user pays system but in reality it isnt.

I have to again stress I am not having a go at serious, experienced ven keepers. Just the inexperienced impulse buyers who could get into vens due to lax licencing laws..and I am definitely not saying I am experienced either in this field. It was merely a rant based on a series of observations which has been taken way out of context.

You seem to be stressing the point you're not having a go at serious ven keepers all the while you're having a go at ven keepers. Do you think serious experienced ven keepers popped out of the womb with that experience.
If you are referring to Victoria when you mention lax laws you need to present some evidence that the bite rate in victoria from captive vens is any higher than in other more stringent states. I personally don't believe it is.

 

[$NaKe PiMp]

lol we have some humerous discussions dont we

damn i cant wait to soak up all the antivenom i can get my hands on yum,and free,all i got to do is get smashed by an elapid while im wearing a cowboy hat,yeeee hah

 

[Colin]

Wouldn't it make more sense for there to be a national licensing system? ie. all states/territories have the same rules for keeping/selling/vens etc? How come we don't have something like this?

exactly
this is an issue Im hoping the new NRKA will take on board with the authorities and get some uniformity happening instead of the different rules from state to state.

 

[beeman]

exactly
this is an issue Im hoping the new NRKA will take on board with the authorities and get some uniformity happening instead of the different rules from state to state.

This is something that wont happen, I have been involved in the political side of a large rural industry and we have been trying push for a simular thingfor the past 7 years and while the industry want this type of change ( to a national registration system and cross border freedoms) not one individual state department will relinquish thier control over their states producers to allow this to happen.