Why did my woma regurgitate? =(

[StellaDoore]

About an hour ago I fed my 10 month old woma and I've just had a look in her enclosure and there's a slimey rat sitting there.
It's a hot day in Vic, temps are 32C* at hot end (I took it down a few degrees as my room was extra hot and increasing the cage temps) with not much of a thermal gradient (how can I fix this?).

The woma is a few days late feeding and was super foody last night. I know because I took her out and she started to constrict my hand while deciding whether or not to bite me; I got her off before she could, but man she had a tight grip!

For the past few weeks she's been getting 2 fuzzy rats at a time so I bumped up the food size to a weaner rat (about the equivalent of two fuzzies). She slammed it down no problem (took less than ten minutes) and had a barely noticeable bump in her.

Why did she regurgitate? The only changes are slightly cooler temps (took it down 2 degrees coz I was worried about over-heating) and food size (which still appears too small). I'm also throwing out that rat, when should I offer her more food?

*temp has already gone up a degree in the enclosure, it's now 33C at hot end and around 30C in cool with a basking spot at 35C. Yes, I realise the cool end isn't cool, but i don't know how to fix that on hot days

 

[benjamind2010]

The ideal woma temperature gradient is between 34 degrees and 26 degrees which is an 8 degree difference between hot and cold ends, but very few breeders are able to keep that gradient stable. I suspect the woma just didn't like the rat and threw it back up. This is rare but still does happen from time to time. I'd wait about 2 weeks and offer a different rat.

You could consider an A/C split system unit which won't be terribly cheap but might save the snakes from heat stress if temps really go beserk. In this case keep the temp on the A/C at 31 degrees on cooling mode, economy cooling @ 30 degrees is even better as it only kicks in when it goes above 30 degrees and only uses minimal airflow which is usually enough. A/C units on cooling usually are 2-3 degrees lower than what the temperature display indicates, so it would be around 27 degrees which will be enough for the snakes and for me it's comfortable enough (heat doesn't bother me, but humidity does, and it also bothers womas, so that's a plus).

 

[Ramsayi]

*temp has already gone up a degree in the enclosure, it's now 33C at hot end and around 30C in cool with a basking spot at 35C. Yes, I realise the cool end isn't cool, but i don't know how to fix that on hot days

When days are going to be extra hot just turn off all heating the night before or early that morning.Since you upped the food size I would think that was the cause of the regurg even though you say it still appears too small.Give it a couple of weeks before trying to feed again and start with a small item.

 

[Pythoninfinite]

Actually this is a useful rule for all keepers... when there's very hot weather expected, as in the current heatwave in SE Australia, DO NOT feed your snakes until the heatwave has well & truly passed. Snakes fed in very hot conditions risk death by food poisoning if the food rots in their gut faster than their digestive juices can deal with the meal, and this is very likely in extreme weather events. Regurgitation is just as common in very hot weather as it is when temps are cooler than optimum. It's much easier to warm a cool cage to a suitable temp than it is to cool a dangerously overheated environment.

Just read the air con comment - aircon is a good safety measure for general management, but it's still better not to feed in hot conditions - if there's a power outage or the aircon unit stuffs up, you'll still have a major problem. Not worth the risk

The snake won't be disadvantaged at all by delaying a regular feed by a few days or a week or two...

Jamie

 

[StellaDoore]

Ok, well I hope the temp outside settles down a bit and will feed her again in a week or two when it has. Stoopid summer. It doesn't seem too hot in the enclosure (no hotter than what she's used to), but I'll still hold off feeding.
Is it possible that she ingested some substrate along with the rat? She's on Oz Pet at the moment. I kept a pretty close eye on her and couldn't see anything, but it's worth taking into account.
At least it doesn't sound like any internal problems, just a few wacko temperatures. I think I'll move her into my bro's room or bathroom where it might be cooler.

 

[Squinty]

I wanna know why a woma that's pretty much a yearling now is only just going to small weener rats..... My yearlings are on 100g+ rats months ago.....

My hatchies that came out in November are on fuzzy rats.....

 

[StellaDoore]

I wanna know why a woma that's pretty much a yearling now is only just going to small weener rats..... My yearlings are on 100g+ rats months ago.....

My hatchies that came out in November are on fuzzy rats.....

The bloke I bought it off said he was feeding them on fuzzies. My dad grabbed a bag of 5 fuzzies (how the shop sold them), which I deemed too small after the first feed. We've finished off that bag and are now easing her into bigger rats. I thought I'd begin with weaners, see how she goes with them (regurge...:?) and then go up to a bigger size.

 

[snakelady96]

I have not read all the comments but the title caught my eye. I got given a woma thats almost 2 years old and only about the size of a yearling if that, i got given it because the owners did not know how to care for it properly and they thought it was going to die. I had him in a new enclosure for los of space for a day then fed him a live fuzzie rat, he took it straight away with no problems, then another 2 he ate so 3 all up. Then later same thing as you described i found all 3 slimy rats in the enclosure, i didnt worry too much as he hadn't eaten with the other people for about 6 months. Then i kept trying every 2 days or so with big meals to try to fill him up and more than one but he kept regurgitating them all the time. Then i had a theory to feed him only one fuzzie rat (by this time he was eating frozen) and see what happens. So i fed it to him and nothing happened and about a week later- a big poo in the corner lol. So from then i have only fed him one fuzzy, hes on weaners now and hes eating 2 weaners each week without problems. I think maybe feed your python smaller meals and just one for a few weeks then try again to go up in a size. Good Luck

 

[MrBredli]

If the cage temps given are accurate i'd be more inclined to think there was an issue with the quality of the food rather than the temperature of the cage, being that the food offered was the first from a new pack.

Are you sure the rat was completely thawed?

 

[Ramsayi]

I wanna know why a woma that's pretty much a yearling now is only just going to small weener rats..... My yearlings are on 100g+ rats months ago.....My hatchies that came out in November are on fuzzy rats.....

You do know that not all womas are created equal.Depending on the areas they originated from there can be quite a big diff between the largest and the smallest types.

 

[StellaDoore]

SnakeLady, she has been on small meals (fuzzies) for the past few weeks, which is why I thought she'd be ok going up a size. The weaners are still smaller than what I'd like her to be eating, but I just thought it would be an easy graduation.

MrBredli, I'm 100% percent sure the food was completely thawed out. I'm really fussy with that and checked several times that it was warm throughout. Could it just be a bad batch of rats? The petshop is the closest one to home and we didn't have any problems with the fuzzies.

Also, not sure if this info is relevant, but since the three meals she's received in the time we've had her, there's only been one brown poo turn up. No urine, no chalk, no other brown poos, just the one which she did when allowed to play on the grass. I've had people tell me their woma does a similar thing and are healthy, but is there a chance the no poo and regurge are connected? (Just trying to explore all options)

 

[sutto75]

IMO i think a lot of people need to take a chill pill when it come to there snakes.
Sometimes a snake is not hungry and will not eat so leave it.
Sometimes an animal will regurgitate food just because and thats cool if its a snake leave it for a week or 2 and try again.
If a snake does not eat in 3 week period it wont die of starvation.
I dont wont to make anyone angry but come on some time a crap takes longer then 72.89541 hours to go from mouth to substrate...
just sayin

 

[junglelove]

lol well said sutto75, dont stress i dont think its a size issue maybe hes just not hungry.
I have a 13yr old woma wally, ive had him for 4yrs he was getting 3 mice on average once a fortnight and i switched him to weaner rats straight off - he slams them down every time no probs!!
its 40 plus here in adelaide and ALL my heating has been switched off for the past few days and everyone is coping fine.
good point Jamie on not feeding them in the heat!!
they will not starve im not into routines i change my feeding from weekly to fortnightly back to weekly and so on.
is he coming up for a slough? my guy usually dose a nice crap after sloughing

 

[MrBredli]

Sometimes an animal will regurgitate food just because and thats cool...

You should make this comment your signature.


Regurgitation is always a serious concern with reptiles.

Stella, it certainly could be the rodents, it could also be that the temps were higher than you thought. I wouldn't expect a Woma to regurgitate at temps of 35 or under. 40+ however, easy to believe.

 

[sutto75]

You should make this comment your signature.


Regurgitation is always a serious concern with reptiles.

Stella, it certainly could be the rodents, it could also be that the temps were higher than you thought. I wouldn't expect a Woma to regurgitate at temps of 35 or under. 40+ however, easy to believe.

LOL come on man
Remember chicken little...... why make everything more then it needs to be.

 

[Bluetongue1]

I’m with MrBedli. Snakes do not regurgitate for no reason what-so-ever. I think it is highly appropriate for an owner to attempt to ascertain the reason.

Stella, you are going about it the right way – looking at what has changed in the animal’s environment that could bring on this change in behaviour. You have identified the temperature and the feed size and source. Through a process of elimination you can identify the reason. Take Jamie’s advice and wait for cooler weather to feed it again. As suggested by MrBredl, try another supplier of same sized rats. If it regurges that, it’s the feed size so do as suggested by snakelady.If it takes to eating the larger food item straight up then you could try it on one from the same pack the regurged rat was from. That would at least eliminate or confirm that possibility. Bear in mind it may be the combination of temperature and feed size.

Ingestion of some substrate would not cause regurgitation but if it is a concern, there are three alternatives. Change to a more practical substrate such as newspaper. Place a one ot two shhets of newspaper ove the substrate when feeding. Feed the snake in a plastic tub – which I would not recommend.

While many snakes will pass faeces about one week after a feed, it is not at all unusal for it to take two weeks or longer. If it still hasn’t produced after three weeks, constipation or impacted faeces is likely. Gently palpate the lower bowel to determine is there are hard lumps of faeces present and treat accordingly. Bear in mind that the amount of faeces passed will depend on the degree of digestion and the amount of rouhage (hair, skin, thicker bones) present in the food.

Urates result from the use of proteins as an energy source. The primary uses of proteins from a meal are growth (new cells) and maintenance and repair of cells. Most meals would provide more protein than is required for these uses. The excess digested protein (amino acids) left over, cannot be stored. So the body pulls it apart to use as a source of energy. The amino group (containing nitrogen) is removed leaving a simple carbohydrate to provide energy. The nitrogen wastes produced by this are processed to form urates. Animals that are actively growing will tend to produce less urates and if going through a growth spurt and not heavily fed, they may not produce any at all.

Blue

 

[StellaDoore]

Thanks for summing that up, Blue, it was really helpful. I'm definitely going to try to follow the different steps listed, so hopefully I can see what the problem was and avoid it in the future.

Thanks again for all the info and advice everyone =)

 

[Bluetongue1]

I forgot to mention one thing. You can try putting a few ice cubes in a plastic jar or Tupperware type container and sit that at the cool end. Keep an eye on temps and add more ice cubes when and if required. Do not empty the melted water. That will at least help see you through any heat wave conditions. You might want to look at obtaining a small portable air-conditioner if you intend to expand the collection in the future.

Womas are geared to happily bask at temperatures up to and even in excess of 40[SUP]o[/SUP]C. They will often bask until their body temperature hits 35[SUP]o[/SUP]C or so before moving off. They are basically storing up heat for being active at night. Their preferred body temperature seems to be around 28[SUP]o[/SUP]C, so the middle of the floor of your enclosure (half way between hot end and cool end) should be at 28[SUP]o[/SUP]C [non-winter temperature regime].

Blue

 

[pythrulz]

The most likely cause of regurgitation Is a lack of heat

 

[Pythoninfinite]

The most likely cause of regurgitation Is a lack of heat

That's a very broad assumption, and is as incorrect as it is dangerously misleading. A truly dumb statement. Should read "one of several causes of regurgitation COULD BE lack of heat... "

Jamie