Winter cooling - Diamonds

[MR_IAN_DAVO]

Striker, are your "diamonds" true Diamonds or locally sourced animals from the Port Macquarie area?
As already well advised, do the latter. i.e DO NOT "Just turn everything off so they have no heating at all".
Definitely turn the basking light on for a few hours during the day, preferaby mid-morning to lunchtime.

I strongly recommend reading a few good articles on Diamond Python husbandry by the well-respected home-grown Diamond experts, Russell Grant and Nick Watson. Their excellent articles were published in 'Keeping and Breeding Australian Pythons" and Reptiles Australia Magazine (Vol.5, Issues 5 & 6) respectively. Also read Gary Valle's contribution in 'The Complete Carpet Python', he's a Californian breeder, who has kept and bred Diamonds for a couple of decades.

Hi Bushman,
Hopefully the articles by Nick should be up on the wiki site soon for all to see.
Personally from my brief experience with Diamonds here in Central Qld i could not agree more with what Nick says in the articles. Hopefully they will be wikied soon for all to read.

Cheers
Ian

 

[serpenttongue]

All this diamond talk is making me want to start keeping them again.

 

[Norm]

All this diamond talk is making me want to start keeping them again.

Don`t fight it, go with it!

 

[serpenttongue]

Don`t fight it, go with it!

Unfortunately, the timing isn't right. There's other things in life that I want to do first.

 

[GSXR_Boy]

All this diamond talk is making me want to start keeping them again.

If our ones i got from you breed this year, you can have a pair.

 

[serpenttongue]

You'll be keeping the bloodline going, Josh!

 

[GSXR_Boy]

Fingers crossed this year is their year! Right age and size so.........

 

[zulu]

QUOTE=Norm;2177634]I see what your saying about the scales but don`t understand your point. Are you suggesting that snake looks like that because it has been kept according to the guide in that book or just that that is how they look when kept in captivity, away from their natural habitat? ( sun light etc.) How long does it take for them to look like this? As my 3 year old is lovely and glossy and I`ve seen plenty of others that look in perfect health also.[/QUOTE]

I dont know how that particular snake was maintained it doesnt say. I tryed the methods in that book and they didnt work for me. Keeping outside faired better but its too much trouble trying to feed them etc and the snakes in my aviary held up in downpipes i had in the top and seldom emerged even to bask and if they did and i walked into the yard they would disappear back into the downpipes. The temeratures of the snakes when they were out were quite low 14 to 18 ,warmer months they would get to around 24 or 25 before disappearing. I presume that when the snakes were hidden in the metal down pipes which was most of the time,they were warm enough without basking. The actual downpipes because of the length had warmer and cooler ends.

 

[MR_IAN_DAVO]

I was just informed that Nick's articles should possibly be downloaded/uploaded whatever tonight maybe.

Cheers
Ian

 

[Norm]

I dont know how that particular snake was maintained it doesnt say. I tryed the methods in that book and they didnt work for me. Keeping outside faired better but its too much trouble trying to feed them etc and the snakes in my aviary held up in downpipes i had in the top and seldom emerged even to bask and if they did and i walked into the yard they would disappear back into the downpipes. The temeratures of the snakes when they were out were quite low 14 to 18 ,warmer months they would get to around 24 or 25 before disappearing. I presume that when the snakes were hidden in the metal down pipes which was most of the time,they were warm enough without basking. The actual downpipes because of the length had warmer and cooler ends.[/QUOTE]

I`m not trying to start an argument but it also doesn`t say its a captive snake. Theres no way of knowing anything about that snake from looking at a picture, although I do concede the chances are that it is captive.
Can I ask where your located?
I wouldn`t think metal downpipes would be the best of hides, I don`t think they would insulate too well. Just my opinion.
So did you find the behaviour of avairy diamonds differed to indoor ones?
Could you elaborate on why those methods didn`t work?
Again I`m not having a go at you, just trying to learn.

 

[zulu]

I dont know how that particular snake was maintained it doesnt say. I tryed the methods in that book and they didnt work for me. Keeping outside faired better but its too much trouble trying to feed them etc and the snakes in my aviary held up in downpipes i had in the top and seldom emerged even to bask and if they did and i walked into the yard they would disappear back into the downpipes. The temeratures of the snakes when they were out were quite low 14 to 18 ,warmer months they would get to around 24 or 25 before disappearing. I presume that when the snakes were hidden in the metal down pipes which was most of the time,they were warm enough without basking. The actual downpipes because of the length had warmer and cooler ends.

I`m not trying to start an argument but it also doesn`t say its a captive snake. Theres no way of knowing anything about that snake from looking at a picture, although I do concede the chances are that it is captive.
Can I ask where your located?
I wouldn`t think metal downpipes would be the best of hides, I don`t think they would insulate too well. Just my opinion.
So did you find the behaviour of avairy diamonds differed to indoor ones?
Could you elaborate on why those methods didn`t work?
Again I`m not having a go at you, just trying to learn.[/QUOTE]

Doesnt look like a wild to me and ive seen hundreds of wild diamonds. Ime in sydneys west and in the hot weather the diamonds move down to the ground under logs or in a insulated box that is on the ground.
Best method ive heard of for actually keeping diamonds was that trueblue Rob Mcloud used to use for keeeping them in
doors. Low wattage heat source with no thermostat on the end of a long cage.

 

[Norm]

So you mean low wattage that the snake can get real close too but doesnt heat the rest of the cage up. So there is a small, specific heated area. Have I got the right image in my head.

 

[jahan]

I also put an esky in the rock wall for when it gets too hot.
They dont like the hot days.

 

[Norm]

I also put an esky in the rock wall for when it gets too hot.
They dont like the hot days.

Wow! Impressive!

 

[zulu]

So you mean low wattage that the snake can get real close too but doesnt heat the rest of the cage up. So there is a small, specific heated area. Have I got the right image in my head.

As far as i know he uses something like a 25 watt coloured globe or similar at the end of the long cage and has a part petition to keep the heat in one end. You may find some old threads from trueblue back a quite a few years now, he is a very good keeper and breeder of a variety of herps.

 

[Norm]

Yeah, I have seen this idea of partioning the cage before. Sounds like a good idea. I think another reason for it is to make the snake exercise, it has to keep moving from hot to cool to thermoregulate.

 

[Striker]

So if you have your diamond in a vertical enclosure - say 4(h)x2(w)x2(d) which is a fairly common setup, with nothing other than a basking light doesn't that achieve the same thing? It's hot directly under the light and probably up the top of the enclosure, but everywhere else sits at room temperature. What's the difference? Or have I misunderstood? Pics?

 

[serpenttongue]

What you're missing is the room temperature - what is it? It's no good giving them a basking temp of 30-32'c if the room itself is 30'c during a hot summer, because they need to be able to cool themselves down to the low 20's whenever they want (diamonds typically bask in the sun until around 10am and then move off into cooler areas for the rest of the day).

So they need a hotspot that reaches 30-32'c, but the rest of the enclosure stays around 22'c. This is harder to acheive than just giving them a warm end and a cool end, like you would with other pythons.

 

[MR_IAN_DAVO]

So if you have your diamond in a vertical enclosure - say 4(h)x2(w)x2(d) which is a fairly common setup, with nothing other than a basking light doesn't that achieve the same thing? It's hot directly under the light and probably up the top of the enclosure, but everywhere else sits at room temperature. What's the difference? Or have I misunderstood? Pics?

Hi Striker, please don't get me wrong, but you say that size is a fairly common set up. I don't know that it is, my dimensons would prefer to go the other way & even longer. They grow to a large snake & whilst they like to climb, as a bigger snake a much larger size enclosure should be considered.
I have kept in outdoor enclosures 1500x1300x900 & sometimes wonder if this enough & i can tell you it is not. Especialy when you consider the temp range that you have to provide to keep these beautifull snakes healthy long term. Please read the wiki when it has been uploaded.

Cheers
Ian

I just read Serpenttongue reply after i typed mine, & he is spot on. i would even go lower if possible with the cool hide place.
maybe that is why the downpipes etc & inground hides do so well.

cheers
Ian

I was just sitting outside having a drink & was thinking about this thread.
If i was to keep diamonds again, in my climate anyway, not yours, i would keep inside a cooled room in summer & all year around in a 6ftx 2ftx2ft enclosure with one small low wattage heat source at one end to get temp to maybe 30 to 32c & cool end to at least low 20s.

Outdoor enclosures are really great, but if i did that again, it would be much larger walk in type & have underground hides or at least hides that came in contact with the shaded cooler ground temps. It is my belief that they are very cool climate snake specialists & unfortunately i have not had the oportunity to see them in the wild, but from all reports that i have read & been told personally, unless you can give them this don't even bother.

Cheers
Ian

 

[Striker]

Just random dimensions I made up for the purpose of the conversation Ian. My enclosures are larger than that I plan is to move them outside into larger ones as soon as I can. I just get the impression (from here mostly) that there are a lot of diamonds living in enclosures of approximately that size. Apologies if my asumption was inaccurate but I don't imagine many are keeping them in enclosures much bigger than that (particularly when following the dimension guidelines in some reputable books). Not that I agree with this (in my opinion the bigger the better). I just call it as I see it.

As for the temperature I know what you mean and my enclosures provide the gradient described by serpenttongue. But for generalised discussion (which is really why I put the question about the partition/enclosure out there) temperature gradients vary largely depending on not only the enclosure and the location you live, but also the room of the house you have them in, the direction they face etc.

Unfortunately Diamonds are the first snake recommended to most new amateur herps (probably because of their temperament) but the more I keep and the more I learn I think they're one of the most complex to look after properly.