Advice Needed - OK to put Murray Darling Carpet Python with Jungle Carpet Python?

[PythonMelb]

Hi all,

Well I'm new to this community - so thanks for having me here Have had a look on here previously but hadn't got round to signing up. It is now by necessity that I'm here as I need some advice ASAP

Hoping to pick your collective brains on this ...

I currently own an approximately 3 year old Male Jungle Carpet Python, approx. 1.8M long (the guy in my profile pic there). I did also previously own an approx. 3 year old Female Jungle Python whom I unfortunately lost to the horrific 'Sunshine Virus' .. anyway that's not the purpose of this post.

Yesterday when stocking up on some large rats at my local I spotted a Male Murray Darling Carpet Python (approx. 2 years old, I would guess maybe 1.3M long) that I really liked. I was able to hold him and noted that his temperament was fantastic, very chilled out, and seemed in great health. When I posed the hypothetical question to the manager of the store as to whether it would be possible for these two guys to co-habitat i.e. share the same enclosure he said yes, no problem, provided I feed them separately.

To describe the enclosure setup, it is 1200mm x 600mm (4 foot x 2 foot). It has a large hide at one end, a large water bowl, a fairly large piece of drift wood to climb on and some fake plants. I am running an infra red heat emitter at one end controlled by thermostat and generally run temps of approx. 26 degrees at the cool end and approx. 32 degrees at the hot end, with a basking point of approx. 40 degrees. I also have a UV light on a timer at the cool end of the enclosure set up to run during the day. The setup seems to work well for my Jungle as he spends some time at each end regulating his body temperature. I'll try and attach a photo showing the enclosure for your reference...

So to cut to the chase, I am really keen to buy this Murray Darling Carpet Python but just want to confirm that this is OK to do so keeping in mind that I intend to keep these guys in the same enclosure.. at this point in time I have reserved the snake but not yet fully committed.

Many thanks in advance for any advice you may be able to give me.

Cheers
Dave

 

[Herpo]

I don't think so. I've seen a few cases of Antaresia sp. cannibalizing upon eachother, and given the larger size of morelia, I wouldn't rule it out.

 

[Shotta]

Simple answer No,Also it is unwise to House 2 Male Carpet pythons together(males can fight and badly injure one another).If you do purchase Him put him into a separate enclosure

 

[Wokka]

There are plenty of cases of keepers keeping Morelia together. You mentioned your previous experience with Sunshine Virus. How do you know if either snake is infected? Retorical question, of course you dont, so quarantine is needed when introducing a new snake to your collection! After that, then you can address your question.

 

[PythonMelb]

There are plenty of cases of keepers keeping Morelia together. You mentioned your previous experience with Sunshine Virus. How do you know if either snake is infected? Retorical question, of course you dont, so quarantine is needed when introducing a new snake to your collection! After that, then you can address your question.

Hey Wokka,

Well actually I do know that my Jungle is not infected as I had him tested after purchase ... obviously don't at this stage know re the Murray Darling but intend to get him tested also..

Thanks for making that point though ... so hypothetically, if I managed to source a temporary enclosure for the Murray Darling and confirm he doesn't have the sunshine virus... What then? Your thoughts as to whether I could then house them together?

Thanks all for the responses thus far .. whilst I want the answer to be a 'yes' I want to obviously arrive at the right decision not only for myself but for my snake/s..

I like the idea of having them in the same enclosure if possible because A) It takes up less space and I won't have to check the flatmates are OK with it as it won't impact on them (and can probably get away without having to seek permission once again from the Landlord) and B) Cost. I think it cost me a cool grand to set up my first enclosure .. the snake cost is $250 so not too much, but if it becomes $1,250 for example that changes the equation quite a bit.

 

[Wokka]

If you keep them separately they definitely wont eat each other. If you keep them together they may. having said that plenty of kepers house Morelia together for the obvious reason of breeding.

 

[PythonLegs]

Pet store staff are employed to sell things. Always keep than in mind when you go into a pet store.
Male carpets can, and do fight. Bredli, coastal, md, jungle..makes no difference to them. Risk of harm.
Snakes do cannibalise, aus zoo lost a coastal last year. Plenty of keepers say they do it, and yet you dont hear too many horror stories..why? Because people are far less likely to publicise their failures.
So, chance of injury and death. I consider myself a better carer than to do something like that. Ultimately it's up to you. Enclosures aren't that expensive.

 

[pythoninfinite]

It can be done, just depends on how much risk you want to take with your animals. Pet shop animals will also ALWAYS carry a far higher risk of being diseased, so you should take note of what both Wokka and PythonLegs have said. Some varieties of Carpet are more prone to combat, but the possibility of severe injury or death will exist whilst ever they are together, the act of feeding is usually brief, but the lingering scents of food around the head and forebody of the snake can last for many hours.

Jamie

 

[PythonMelb]

Thanks all, appreciate the feedback.

I don't want to risk the wellbeing of my animals for the sake of saving a bit of money .. I'll have a think about where the priorities lay and whether it's worth buying another snake enclosure.

On that note, any suggestions re perhaps a more cost effective place to buy a good snake enclosure? I like my current setup but I think if I go through the aquarium/pet store it's going to set me back around $1,000 like last time..

 

[cement]

There is no test for sunshine virus!
The best you can say after having a snake die of any of the opmv viruses going around is that they aren't showing clinical signs.

That enclosure that you pictured with the jungle in it, isn't big enough for two snakes. If your going to house snakes together (which goes against their own instintive behaviour) then at least make sure you have two basking sites and a big enough area that they can both get the heat they need, the cool they need and the space they need alone so that the less dominant one won't stress.

 

[A1SNAKETRADER]

Remember the old rule of one plus one equals one

 

[PythonLegs]

Ebay, mate. User reptilesaspets2010 , not me, but decent, cheap enclosures.
Couple that with a heat panel and thermostat from proherp and some smick trimmings from [MENTION=41800]Virides[/MENTION] and you'll be set for a heckuva lot less than $1000.

 

[Virides]

Ebay, mate. User reptilesaspets2010 , not me, but decent, cheap enclosures.
Couple that with a heat panel and thermostat from proherp and some smick trimmings from @Virides and you'll be set for a heckuva lot less than $1000.

These smick trimmings - http://virides.com.au/shop/sliding-glass-finger-grips



Thanks [MENTION=25680]PythonLegs[/MENTION] !

 

[pythoninfinite]

All good suggestions... but if you use an identical heat source with the same wattage, you shouldn't need another thermostat. That'll save you a few bucks. Also, if buying enclosures off the net, don't get a used one, it'll be a potential source of disease. A 4x2x2 16mm HMR melamine enclosure can be built for under $50 + glass + the cost of heating/lighting, so $1000 at a pet shop is way more than you actually need to spend for a perfectly satisfactory snake house.

Jamie

 

[mikey_mike]

I have a related question - not relevant to pyhtonmelb unfortunately. I'd really like to keep pythons together one day, but obviously aren't keen on watching them eat each other.

Can diamonds be kept communally with relative safety?

 

[winny111]

[MENTION=4778]cement[/MENTION] [MENTION=41835]Wokka[/MENTION] I may be wrong but if I am reading the following article correctly Sunshine virus can be detected by oral and faecal swabs.
https://www.wildlifehealthaustralia...Sunshine Virus (Snakes) 21 Jun 2014 (1.1).pdf
I will check on this next time I see Dr Tim. I do know he is one of the front runners spending a lot of time looking into this and other virus as it is the reason West Australians are not allowed to import pythons from other states, in the hope this virus does not enter WA.

 

[Wokka]

I only mentioned Sunshine Virus because you did. A new snake could carry any disease, testable of not and so should be quarantined.

 

[Iguana]

I have been told by every Reptile keeper/Hobbiest/breeder/ect I know that keeping two snakes together isn't a permanent solution, it's usually done when breeding/moving/waiting for a new enclosure ect. Ideally it's better to keep them separate, it's easier to make sure no diseases are spread, there's no fighting (mostly between males) and both pythons don't have to compete for hotspots, hides ect. You can pick up a fully set up tank on gumtree for around the $300-350 mark, and just stack it on top of the other one. In the end it's your choice, but personally, I don't think it's worth the risk.
In response to the space issue, you could put the Murray in the Jungle's (4X2X2) horizontal enclosure and buy a vertical one for the Jungle (2X2X4) since he will enjoy the climbing space, and a vertical enclosure takes up less floor space generally.
Hope this helps.

 

[pythoninfinite]

@cement @Wokka I may be wrong but if I am reading the following article correctly Sunshine virus can be detected by oral and faecal swabs.
https://www.wildlifehealthaustralia...Sunshine Virus (Snakes) 21 Jun 2014 (1.1).pdf
I will check on this next time I see Dr Tim. I do know he is one of the front runners spending a lot of time looking into this and other virus as it is the reason West Australians are not allowed to import pythons from other states, in the hope this virus does not enter WA.

I'm sure Tim Hyndman would confirm that Sunshine virus and anything else snakes are subjected to already exist and are active in WA. CALM (then) had a large die-off of confiscated snakes they were holding back in the 90s if I recall. The disease issue is simply an excuse to stop the import of pythons and their subsequent hybridising by thoughtless & restless keepers looking for something "different." Although I found it frustrating when I lived in WA, it may not have been a bad strategy really, given the now buggered genetics of the eastern Carpets (species differentiation notwithstanding...). Read what Wokka has written, and let it soak in... it may be the most important decision you make with regard to your animals. You shouldn't look for reasons not to do it (quarantine for 12 months), you should just accept that it's a necessary part of acquiring new animals.

Jamie

 

[winny111]

@pythoninfinite I was refuring to the comment by @Wokka (How do you know if either snake is infected? Retorical question, of course you dont,) and @cement (There is no test for sunshine virus!).
The FACT is there is a test for Sunshine virus and that means @PythonMelb does know if the snakes are infected if they have been tested, so infact @Wokka and @cement are both WRONG!.
however I would encourage and agree with anyone who encourages Quarantine perhaps the animal may have only just acquired a desease (of any type) and it is not picked up by a test or heaven forbid human error has a play in test results.
As for the original question I feel it is best to keep any and all reptiles in separate enclosures unless breeding, I know many people who disagree. @pythoninfinite I agree (The disease issue is simply an excuse to stop the import of pythons and their subsequent hybridising by thoughtless & restless keepers looking for something "different.")(it may not have been a bad strategy really, given the now buggered genetics of the eastern Carpets (species differentiation notwithstanding...)). [MENTION=41820]pythoninfinite[/MENTION] Read what I wrote, and let it soak in...