Anti Gay America, Rick Perry

[toximac]

I don't understand how religious people think they have a right to vote against someone else's love, or thinking they should 'allow' same benefits as everyone else. The Government should be the ones doing it regardless of the vote, because its the right thing to do! Because they are the ones giving the benefits!

Marriage means less without allowing homosexuals to marry, because it officially means discrimination & benefits. Seriously, if it revolved around love, we wouldn't even be debating it. Strip all benefits away, couples sharing a VISA overseas, citizenship, name change/social title, will, loans/family status, money/property etc.. would people still get married? Because all these things are not religious issues.

Are people fearful because it will open a can of worms to religious business's getting special privileges like tax free/no land tax?
I don't know about you, but Id prefer psychological/medical institutions having tax free status over churches, after all they're the ones who fix people who come out of them.

 

[fugawi]

I also noticed that high mercury levels was a cause and in tests with female mice having their female hormone levels lowered, they showed a masculine response and dominated the others. There are much higher mercury levels in our cities and on our farms now due to fertilizers etc. I wonder if it may be a combination of factors like hormone levels, poisons and a more open society? It may better explain why it goes back to early childhood than genetics.

( Again....sorry if I am making it sound like a curable disease)

 

[hypochondroac]

I love how they start with 'I have so many gay friends and i don't treat them any differently to a normal person' like that makes you some kind of peace maker.

 

[Darlyn]

I love how people try and pull homosexuality down, desseminate it, put it back together so it all makes sense.
Then do..........what with the findings?
Breed it out, find a medical cure?


Wot tha?

 

[Recharge]

T

he word homosexual is a Greek and Latin hybrid with the first element derived from Greek ὁμός homos, 'same' (not related to the Latin homo, 'man', as in Homo sapiens), thus connoting sexual acts and affections between members of the same sex, including lesbianism

so yea, it kinda can.

of course it's not a direct comparison, being we are the only sentient creature and all, but even with that, we evolved from the same organisms, we share 99.97 percent of the same genes as every living thing on the planet.
so it's not so flimsy apart from the whole self aware bit.
but even given that we have the ability to make (semi) informed choices and the ability to critically think about said choices, we still have instinct like every animal, we still have biological urges and imperatives like every other animal, we are only different in the smallest aspect, it just happens to make a huge difference in how we live, and you can't simply disregard all of these things.

I do have to ask, why is this even an issue to you? unless you're religious? or perhaps you've had unresolved feeling for the same sex at some stage and it scared the poo out of you?
really, I simply don't get it, how and why is this an issue? to try and dissect it? (without going and reading the current freely available science, medicine and psychology papers, and educate yourself) humans don't do much of anything without our own reasons

 

[fugawi]

My god some of you people have thin skins.........Now I'm being accused of being a religious, homophobic, latent homosexual. Why can't you have a normal, peaceful discussion without all the anger and accusations. I simply disagreed with the "" It's a genetic thing" and the excuse that animals are also gay.
For your information I was watching a show from England called Dawn becomes a lesbian, where the presenter, Dawn, totally immersed herself in the lesbian culture for 2 weeks to get an understanding of lesbians. She lived in an apartment with 3 lesbians and went out with them to lesbian bars and clubs and even served behind the bar for a night. She saw a psychiatrist to ask how she can immerse herself further and he warned her that it could permanently turn her off men and it could do damage to later heterosexual relationships. By the end of her stay, she found that she was having erotic dreams of women and that she could easily understand why some women would be lesbians. It seems strange that a strictly hetrosexual TV presenter can be turned into a lesbian within 2 weeks by immersing herself in the culture. This seems to be a cultural thing to me....not genetic.
I'm starting to lean towards the idea that given no repercussions, enough alcohol at a Toga Party Orgy, with both straight and gay guests, everyone would start to experiment and show at least bisexual tendancies. I'm also thinking that various people have varying hormone levels, so some would jump straight in and some would hang back. This would suggest varying levels of homosexuality in all people. Therefore there is nothing "Wrong" with gays they just simply have different hormone levels and have immersed themselves in a different culture to me. This should reinforce the total equality issue of gays in this society. I don't think of them as sick, just a different lifestyle.

So in conclusion to the knockers, after all the questions and debate, I have given what I think is a good argument backing equality for all gays.

 

[Crystal..Discus]

I didn't see anything accusatory, merely jest? Why is it that you interpreted it that way? You've presented very little in the way of studies regarding your "understanding" of homosexual behaviour, you just presented shallow findings from a television show.. It's fighting the nature vs nurture battle; an uphill struggle fought for many years and you're only just scratching at the surface of an iceburg.

Regardless, we shouldn't need scientific studies or reason to justify equal rights for everyone... :cry:

 

[Jay84]

At first that sounds good, but it is still pretty random Jay. Far removed uncle and partners cousin are close but still pretty random. 4 people from 2 different families (yours and your partners), I'm talking parents, grandparents, children etc. Direct family. Twins have a closeness that borders on freaky where they "know" things and can finish off each others sentences so no surprise there, they also would hang out in the same circles together. It seems that all the twins seem to know each other and hang in the same social circles. Oh i know it is all very random and i can't see any patern to it either. I just thought as we were talking about homosexuality being genetic that i would add this info if you found it interesting. Also, your point about the twins hanging in the same social circles. Do you fnd it interesting that all sets of identical twins that i know are either both gay or both straight, the non identical twins can be either sexuality? All of them hanging in the same social circles.......

Please remember these are just observations not conclusions.

I also noticed that high mercury levels was a cause and in tests with female mice having their female hormone levels lowered, they showed a masculine response and dominated the others. There are much higher mercury levels in our cities and on our farms now due to fertilizers etc. I wonder if it may be a combination of factors like hormone levels, poisons and a more open society? It may better explain why it goes back to early childhood than genetics. Are you saying i am poisoned?!?!?! hahahha (don't worry, i am joking and i have not taken offense to aything you have said

With the high levels of mercury, has this always been the case? Because throughout the ages there have always been gays. Were people exposed to mercury back in the day?

( Again....sorry if I am making it sound like a curable disease) I have not taken offense to anything you have said

My god some of you people have thin skins.........Now I'm being accused of being a religious, homophobic, latent homosexual. Why can't you have a normal, peaceful discussion without all the anger and accusations. I simply disagreed with the "" It's a genetic thing" and the excuse that animals are also gay.
For your information I was watching a show from England called Dawn becomes a lesbian, where the presenter, Dawn, totally immersed herself in the lesbian culture for 2 weeks to get an understanding of lesbians. She lived in an apartment with 3 lesbians and went out with them to lesbian bars and clubs and even served behind the bar for a night. She saw a psychiatrist to ask how she can immerse herself further and he warned her that it could permanently turn her off men and it could do damage to later heterosexual relationships. By the end of her stay, she found that she was having erotic dreams of women and that she could easily understand why some women would be lesbians. It seems strange that a strictly hetrosexual TV presenter can be turned into a lesbian within 2 weeks by immersing herself in the culture. This seems to be a cultural thing to me....not genetic. This also goes back to a previous comment by Gordo. That no one is 100% straight or gay. Everyone are varying degrees of it. You will find that many 'straight' people have had sexual experiences with people of the same sex, you will find that many gay people have been with people of the opposite sex. My partner was with a girl for some time before he came out. I personally have NEVER been with a girl and the furthest i have gone with a girl is a kiss hahahaha

Also this doesn't explain about a child identifying themselves as gay when they do not have gay friends, don't go to gay clubs, have NO exposure to homosexuality at all.
I'm starting to lean towards the idea that given no repercussions, enough alcohol at a Toga Party Orgy, with both straight and gay guests, everyone would start to experiment and show at least bisexual tendancies. I'm also thinking that various people have varying hormone levels, so some would jump straight in and some would hang back. This would suggest varying levels of homosexuality in all people. Therefore there is nothing "Wrong" with gays they just simply have different hormone levels and have immersed themselves in a different culture to me. This should reinforce the total equality issue of gays in this society. I don't think of them as sick, just a different lifestyle.

So in conclusion to the knockers, after all the questions and debate, I have given what I think is a good argument backing equality for all gays.

I think you have presented good ideas. Some i can look at and think... possibly, others i can look at and think, no way. End of the day as someone else has put. it shouldnt matter whether we are poisoned or born this way or hormone levels are different etc. We are still human beings and should have equal rights. I know this is where you stand so in no way am i attacking you

 

[Recharge]

My god some of you people have thin skins

I couldn't have put it better myself
but, you didn't answer my question.
and, I could argue your post, but, well, I've had enough for the moment, trying to argue a point just drains me out *sigh*
but for future reference, I wasn't and don't accuse, I ask questions to try to understand a posters motivation(s)
and with this particular topic, not all is black and white usually.

oh, and documentary you give as part of your reason, it's rubbish, immersing yourself in gay culture will NOT have you turning gay, I mean really..
and my belief for decades, is humanity is naturally bisexual and it's culture and social pressures that make us restrict ourselves, but then, my glasses may be tinted hehe

 

[Bel03]

*asks why we needed to know that* :?

I was just sharing something i had just read.......my bad! You didnt need to know........but my post wasnt the first post stating nothing but useless info either.......

 

[Wally]

I was just sharing something i had just read.......my bad! You didnt need to know........but my post wasnt the first post stating nothing but useless info either.......

That's alright Bel, a few further drinks vanquished the disturbing mental pictures that formed in my over active imagination.

 

[waruikazi]

My god some of you people have thin skins.........Now I'm being accused of being a religious, homophobic, latent homosexual. Why can't you have a normal, peaceful discussion without all the anger and accusations. I simply disagreed with the "" It's a genetic thing" and the excuse that animals are also gay.
For your information I was watching a show from England called Dawn becomes a lesbian, where the presenter, Dawn, totally immersed herself in the lesbian culture for 2 weeks to get an understanding of lesbians. She lived in an apartment with 3 lesbians and went out with them to lesbian bars and clubs and even served behind the bar for a night. She saw a psychiatrist to ask how she can immerse herself further and he warned her that it could permanently turn her off men and it could do damage to later heterosexual relationships. By the end of her stay, she found that she was having erotic dreams of women and that she could easily understand why some women would be lesbians. It seems strange that a strictly hetrosexual TV presenter can be turned into a lesbian within 2 weeks by immersing herself in the culture. This seems to be a cultural thing to me....not genetic.
I'm starting to lean towards the idea that given no repercussions, enough alcohol at a Toga Party Orgy, with both straight and gay guests, everyone would start to experiment and show at least bisexual tendancies. I'm also thinking that various people have varying hormone levels, so some would jump straight in and some would hang back. This would suggest varying levels of homosexuality in all people. Therefore there is nothing "Wrong" with gays they just simply have different hormone levels and have immersed themselves in a different culture to me. This should reinforce the total equality issue of gays in this society. I don't think of them as sick, just a different lifestyle.

So in conclusion to the knockers, after all the questions and debate, I have given what I think is a good argument backing equality for all gays.

This also goes back to a previous comment by Gordo. That no one is 100% straight or gay. Everyone are varying degrees of it. You will find that many 'straight' people have had sexual experiences with people of the same sex, you will find that many gay people have been with people of the opposite sex. My partner was with a girl for some time before he came out. I personally have NEVER been with a girl and the furthest i have gone with a girl is a kiss hahahaha

Great point Jay.

But come on both of you! How can you not love a nice round pair of boobs? Or a rock hard sculpted set of pecks? Trust me, you can get a good grip on both of them! :lol:

 

[Nighthawk]

Strip all benefits away, couples sharing a VISA overseas, citizenship, name change/social title, will, loans/family status, money/property etc.. would people still get married?

I did. I get nothing over here, no special dispensations to citizenship, no benefits, no help whatsoever apart from a medicare card. Do I care? No. As long as there's a roof over my kids' heads, as long as they're fed and happy, as long as my little family's together I don't care, because I love them all.
Just letting you know that marriage for love does still exist, and should exist for everyone.

 

[moosenoose]

I think gay people should get married. That sort of stress shouldn't have to be subjected simply to us mere hetros :lol:

 

[Bel03]

I think gay people should get married. That sort of stress shouldn't have to be subjected simply to us mere hetros :lol:

I agree with marriage being 'more hassle then its worth'. Since proposing to me, my partner seems to be in some rush to do the wedding thing......meanwhile, im not! Although i do love him heaps, & will gladly spend my life with him, i dont need that 'piece of paper'........i would rather spend the money involved in 'getting married' to 'get more reptiles'!
I think that for those who still believe in marriage though, no matter who they wish to marry, should be aloud.

 

[Nighthawk]

I agree with marriage being 'more hassle then its worth'. Since proposing to me, my partner seems to be in some rush to do the wedding thing......meanwhile, im not! Although i do love him heaps, & will gladly spend my life with him, i dont need that 'piece of paper'........i would rather spend the money involved in 'getting married' to 'get more reptiles'!
I think that for those who still believe in marriage though, no matter who they wish to marry, should be aloud.

Just do what we did; our wedding was a glorified bbq with a celebrant. We couldn't afford a huge thing and didn't really want one (although having said that, if the money was there and not an issue we probably would have enjoyed it...), but we couldn't justify spending that amount of money on a wedding, what with 2 kids at the time, our glorious hobby, bills to pay and the like. Much rather spend that on the life we wanted rather than the image we were putting forward. Fact is, we were happy, we wanted to be married, we did it. No frills. It shouldn't need to be anything more than that really, and the option should be open to anyone.

 

[Bel03]

Nighthawk, oh i SO would just go a bbq, drinks & good company........& when we do go down that path, that's exactly what it will be. ATM though, i am just in absolutley no rush whatsoever! (ive never been a big believer of marriage, ive seen far too many divorces) The funniest thing is, having drinks with some mates on the weekend & they are in the exact same situation, except it is her that wants it & her partner that doesnt! She thinks im crazy for not wanting the wedding part of it, while her partner & i think they are crazy for wanting to ruin an already good thing!

 

[RIXI]

so gay people cant be happy without a certificate of marrage??...

while we (humans) claim to be intelegent and argue over pieces of paper....300,000 children are dying, we're killing off mother earth....but hey im all for gay marrage.....

Trivial argument.... lets argue somthing worth arguing... am i out of line?

 

[Bel03]

so gay people cant be happy without a certificate of marrage??...

While marriage isnt for some of us, there are alot of people who do believe greatly in marriage & what it symbolises..........the point is, it isnt our place to judge who they marry!

As for your list of 'real' problems', i agree completely, there is nothing rational about arguing about marriage being for man & woman only, while children are dying.......however, it shouldnt need to be argued in the first place, get rid of stupid laws, & there wouldnt be an argument on this topic!

 

[Crystal..Discus]

so gay people cant be happy without a certificate of marrage??...

while we (humans) claim to be intelegent and argue over pieces of paper....300,000 children are dying, we're killing off mother earth....but hey im all for gay marrage.....

Trivial argument.... lets argue somthing worth arguing... am i out of line?

Let's talk about how the education system in this country is obviously failing.