Anti Gay America, Rick Perry

[Snowman]

So how have you changed the laws? You haven't that s how, because you can't.

The thing is my gay and lesbian friends aren't as worried as you about their situation. They understand that there are a few of their peers who want the laws change but when talking to them they say it doesn't matter. They also don't seem to have any problems with discrimination at work or play.

 

[souldoubt]

I'm not going to get into this debate with you it's going waaaaaaay off track so I think you've completely missed my point. But I will give you the thought that: in Australia the Prime minister cant change the laws either. It needs to go through a number of steps that are there for that exact reason. Otherwise it would be more dictatorship than democratic.

It would be interesting to know if your friends feel discriminated against away from work or when they were younger perhaps?

 

[Snowman]

That's right so if our democratic process hasn't approved this then it's the result of a nation not an individual or religious group.
As I said before love EVERYONE the same.

 

[Recharge]

but they are beginning to change, it's in the news for goodness sakes, soon to be legal recognition in the form of civil unions, and eventually, I believe the term marriage will be used, not in the short term, but eventually, heck, the fight for equality in non whites took hundreds of years, as did the equal rights of women, it all takes time, but eventually society changes.
racism too is ever so slowly changing, it's mandated in law, hate crimes and other areas, do you think homosexuals should have any less? it's their sexuality, the same as skin colour, it's an aspect of one segregated lot, and the fight to have it accepted as normal, healthy and especially into law is a must, it's the right thing to do and it's a worthy cause to campaign for.

and as I said, it's fine that you don't agree and wish to sit it out (lucky for you people less than a hundred years ago disagreed on skin colour segregation and inequality and fought, and not that's not a personal attack it's something to really seriously think about), I don't particularly find you lacking or any less of you, but I do think you're not really considering how important and valid it is (perhaps because it doesn't effect you personally?)

That's right so if our democratic process hasn't approved this then it's the result of a nation not an individual or religious group.
As I said before love EVERYONE the same.

not exactly true, as I mentioned earlier, religious influence in our government is HUGE (the vast majority) yet it's not across the country (well, not polarised at least) even though in every (randomly selected) poll shows the vast majority don't support the religious stance on this issue.

and yet, "our" voices are slowly being heard, at least when a gay issue arses and both parties take a massive popularity dive, which makes them ever so slowly reconsider.

So how have you changed the laws? You haven't that s how, because you can't.

The thing is my gay and lesbian friends aren't as worried as you about their situation. They understand that there are a few of their peers who want the laws change but when talking to them they say it doesn't matter. They also don't seem to have any problems with discrimination at work or play.

your gay friends? that's a horribly small sample size to go judging a country size situation on don't you think?

 

[Snowman]

Perhaps, but I think my gay and lesbian friends not caring makes me think even less of the situation. My ancestors came out during the white Australia policy. The skin colour hasn't really been an issue for my family in Australia other than as kids. The were still made citizens due to their social status and background. It was mainly the indigenous who faired poorly in this country. People forget there were thousands of Chinese, Indians, etc before white Australia policy was introduced. When you look at a lot of changes in the law it's often stemmed from the people it affected the most. Malcolm X, Martin Luther King, Rosa Parks etc
Yes I'm happy to take a back seat on homosexual rights. It doesn't affect me. I doubt the whole gay movement is supporting the fight for ban on imported produce either. My initiall statement was about this.

 

[slim6y]

Perhaps Sax. I mainly just don't like how angry everyone gets at each other.
There is no law against being gay.

Hmmmm... This is one law I won't ever get - but you're right about there being no law against being gay. But there is a law that prevents certain types of intercourse under the age of 18 in the state of Queensland.

And if you can't tell me that this isn't aimed at under 18 homosexual males, then, I'd really like to know why that law is there!

Australia is an extremely backwards country in certain things - and this is one of them. Maybe more so in Queensland than the remainder of the country.

 

[Bel03]

On the topic of stupid laws........in America somewhere, there is a law that allows men to have intercourse with animals......as long as they are under 5kgs.......:shock:
I will find the list i have, top 10 real useless laws, & post it here.

 

[Wally]

*asks why we needed to know that* :?

 

[Recharge]

*asks why we needed to know that* :?

keep an eye out for people planning trips quickly to the USA! :lol:

 

[Snakewoman]

Religion and christianity is, thankfully, a dying entity, and I can't wait for the day it dies out completely, not in my lifetime it won't happen, but it WILL happen, as I said, it is irrelevant and useless.

Will be really happy to see the gays get their rights to marry, I hope they put it to a referendum, I think you'd find it would be a resounding YES!

I understand where you're coming from but religion dying out will not stop people going to war. I can't stand the extremist religious fanatics that caused so many wars to happen, but I believe the responsibility for their actions is on their heads, in their screwed up mind they believed what they were doing was right, but the fault lies with them, it isn't a book's fault they couldn't grow up and accept people who are different from them, it just seems to be the excuse they use, similar (but obviously not exactly the same) to people who kill somebody and say it was the fault of a violent video game they played.

People have the right to believe what they want, but the second they start trying to ram it down other people's throats or treat others who don't share their views like garbage it's a problem, but I know many religious people who are nothing like that, they aren't all bad. I totally understand wanting the abuse from religious fanatics to stop, but for me wanting their entire religion to die out isn't that different to the religious people who wish homosexuality would die out. I'm not having a go at you here, I agree with most of what you said

 

[Renenet]

Australia is an extremely backwards country in certain things - and this is one of them. Maybe more so in Queensland than the remainder of the country.

It frustrates me how socially conservative Australia is.

 

[fugawi]

To Jay......Just to clarify, I'm not homophobic in any way. I have had some very good friends who were gay and I have always treated them as I would any mate.

On the subject of society vs genetic, I am not a psychologist or psychiatrist, basically just putting it out there. What I don't understand is that if it was genetic, wouldn't it be passed on to their siblings? Shouldn't they have got it passed down from one of their parents? This would give you a lineage, within a family that has tendencies towards being gay. Yet it seems to be entirely random. Wouldn't it therefore be a random mutation? (Sorry about making it sound like a disease. I am just trying to understand the genetic theory from a more scientific standpoint, not trying to hurt anyones feelings). I am just putting these questions forward for a better understanding rather than being argumentative. So please don't flame.

 

[Recharge]

well, the thing is, they just don't know as yet, it may be several variables, for one thing, every human alive can be traced back to one male and one female ancestor (about 10,000 years apart) so it could easily be argued there could be a genetic trait, but it's spread across the entire species.

then you have the weird statistic of the more male children a women has, the higher chance the youngest will be gay. so it is also part of the female defence system (so they think)

and then you have the whole nature/nurture and abuse thing, where some people could have or have been psychologically scarred in child hood that create an affinity for the same sex.

and I think there may be other variables as well, but as you can see, there are a lot of things that can come into play, and as yet, they haven't found what causes one to be gay in their brain structure yet either (or for being strait either for that matter)
it's all very up in the air and I have no doubt it'll be decades if not longer before we have any real "reasons"

 

[Jay84]

Fugwai, sorry if my post sounded abrasive, i did not take your comments as homophobic at all. I was just trying to explain things form how i see it, my own experiences.

My best mates are identical twins, both gay. I know 3 sets of identical twins who are all gay. I know one set of non identical twins, one s gay, the other is not.

My partners cousin is gay. One of my far removed uncles is gay.

I can't explain the genetics of it, but i am confident you are born that way.

 

[fugawi]

At first that sounds good, but it is still pretty random Jay. Far removed uncle and partners cousin are close but still pretty random. 4 people from 2 different families (yours and your partners), I'm talking parents, grandparents, children etc. Direct family. Twins have a closeness that borders on freaky where they "know" things and can finish off each others sentences so no surprise there, they also would hang out in the same circles together. It seems that all the twins seem to know each other and hang in the same social circles.

Please remember these are just observations not conclusions.

 

[Australis]

I guess animals make the choice to be gay to :lol:

 

[Renenet]

What I don't understand is that if it was genetic, wouldn't it be passed on to their siblings? Shouldn't they have got it passed down from one of their parents? This would give you a lineage, within a family that has tendencies towards being gay. Yet it seems to be entirely random.

Interesting point... but I think it would be hard to track the "lineage" of homosexuality to a point where it would be meaningful, simply because it has been considered so shameful. Any homosexuality in a family was likely hushed up and children who showed attraction to the same sex were probably "encouraged" against it. I'll bet there are people who never knew or accepted they were gay because it was so frowned on.

There's a similar problem in many families with genetic cancer risk. Two or three generations ago, you just did not talk about cancer and people simply got sick and died, no cause given. Consequently, it's difficult for people with a family history of cancer to trace the history back further than their grandparents.

 

[fugawi]

Are they truly gay or is it dominance or some other thing we as humans relate to as being gay?

It would be hard to trace Renenet.

What we consider to be gay in dogs and other pack animals is actually a dominance thing, not actually gay with feelings or attraction towards the other individual animal.

 

[Recharge]

Are they truly gay or is it dominance or some other thing we as humans relate to as being gay?

It would be hard to trace Renenet.

What we consider to be gay in dogs and other pack animals is actually a dominance thing, not actually gay with feelings or attraction towards the other individual animal.

well, if you want to get technical, there ARE no feelings in animals, nor "attraction", in human terms at least, we are the only fully sentient being on this sphere (that we know of), all other animals operate on instinct alone.
and not all animals have a dominance angle either, penguins for instance (and I'm sure others as well).

Homosexual behavior in animals - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia, there are MANY variations it seems.

 

[fugawi]

If you read through the wiki you will find that it is debatable as to even using the words Homosexual Behaviour. As you read through each species in the list there is usually a logical reason like social bonding, defence of the nest or simply a lack of females in the enclosure. I think it is pretty flimsy to compare these animals to true gay behaviour like in humans.