Are you religious?

[Dipcdame]

If you are really interested in answers, read this article.

http://www.watchtower.org/e/20070915/article_02.htm

For the main info relating to this discussion, scroll down to "A Vital Issue Is Raised"

The watchtower!!!!!!!!!???????? So all this is from the point of view of a jehovas witness.............. hmmmmm....... NOW this is getting good. I wouldn't give anyone from that faith time of day, nor take note of their ramblings, you see.....I believe in preserving life, NOT taking it. There is no way I would stand by and watch my child/brother/parent/husband die, simply because a PIECE OF PAPER tells me I cannot save their lives by allowing doctors to do what they can to save them, even if it meant blood transfusions and transplants. I don't CARE how much I might be preached to that it is not "god's will" or whatever the excuse is. Where is it ACTUALLY stated?? Which PIECE OF PAPER??

Someone earlier said that religious people who , in my opinion, spend their entire lives preparing to die, will be very disappointed when their time comes. AND, I add, realise just what a mistake they made in killing their own families.

Who is to say that is was NOT this gods will that peoples lives SHOULD be saved...... otherwise, why were they given the knowledge in the first place?? (and please, DON'T insult my intelligence by citing this free will rubbish. IF this god was supposed to be SO caring, he would do all he/it could to releive suffering)

 

[missllama]

hey can i just ask im not trying to cause trouble or anything...
if ur a jehovis witness... does that mean if ur kid is in hospital about to die and needs a blood transplant u wouldnt let them have it? and if u needed blood u wouldnt take it?

i went to a private christian and lutheran school and i hated it back then i was scared into being religous imo i belive in god BUT i dont agree with most of the stuff that is said these days and preached etc...

im mainly asking this because when i was in hospital sick with an extreemly low white blood cell count they were asking my religeous views etc i think that might have been because if i was a jehovis they have to double check if i want the blood or not???

someone please confirm this
tar!

 

[waruikazi]

Well I personally can't stand religion, It is such a primitive way of thinking and I truly believe it holds us back as a species. I hate the power of the church and places like the Vatican, it's like a country in itself.
I can't stand the virus of faith which is past on by parents brainwashing their children and I find it sad that people think they have to endure this life to get to the next, and yes if I do worship anyone it is Richard Dawkins.

I also don't understand how people dismiss the theory of evolution put forward by Charles Darwin in 1859 in his book on the origin of species which by the way is my bible. The theory of evolution by natural selection has been tried and tested and tested again for over 150 years and finally confirmed with the discovery of DNA and the mapping of the human Genome.

And remember an agnostic is just an athiest with no balls.

I hate to tell you this but evolution has not been 'proven' to be true and is still a theory. It is however comforting to know that there is sooooooooo much evidence for the theory to be true and has been accepted to be true because of the evidence. But it hasn't been proven, same as other theories like nuclear physics (like atoms and electrons and stuff) it can't be proven but it makes sense and there is a whole lot of evidence backing it so it is accepted.

Man that was bad english... But i think my technical point gets across.

 

[Dipcdame]

Lana, read my post just before yours!!!!!

My true belief is, that if we indeed DO have free will, then why do we have to be cajouled and scared into believing something, just because other misguided souls do.

If we were to embrace anything, it would be so hard to choose.... now let me see.... if I don't become a catholic, I'm condemned to burn in hell for eternity. Not Anglican?? You'll NEVER be saved....... To avoid the Jewish faith condemns one to similar fates..

ohhhhhhhhhhh ........ SUCH choice!!!!!!!!

 

[missllama]

oh and i belive in ghosts and reincarnation etc... so thats also what i ment by not beliving everying that thats said i still belive that theres a big man upstairs

 

[missllama]

so can a parent really choose if there infant dies or not?? what age does someone get the right to make there own choice eg a 5yr old a 10yr old etc? without the parents saying no u cant have it or yes u can? i dont want to be rude to any jehovis witnesses but there is no way i could ever sit back and watch my kid or anyone die and not alow them to have transplants no matter what religeon i was

is there any jehovis witnesses on here who have been put in that situation before? and chose to let them have a transplant or chose not too?

id really like to hear from someone who has been in that situation before

 

[abbott75]

The watchtower!!!!!!!!!???????? So all this is from the point of view of a jehovas witness.............. hmmmmm....... NOW this is getting good. I wouldn't give anyone from that faith time of day, nor take note of their ramblings, you see.....I believe in preserving life, NOT taking it. There is no way I would stand by and watch my child/brother/parent/husband die, simply because a PIECE OF PAPER tells me I cannot save their lives by allowing doctors to do what they can to save them, even if it meant blood transfusions and transplants. I don't CARE how much I might be preached to that it is not "god's will" or whatever the excuse is. Where is it ACTUALLY stated?? Which PIECE OF PAPER??

Someone earlier said that religious people who , in my opinion, spend their entire lives preparing to die, will be very disappointed when their time comes. AND, I add, realise just what a mistake they made in killing their own families.

Who is to say that is was NOT this gods will that peoples lives SHOULD be saved...... otherwise, why were they given the knowledge in the first place?? (and please, DON'T insult my intelligence by citing this free will rubbish. IF this god was supposed to be SO caring, he would do all he/it could to releive suffering)

PLEASE don't destroy this thread.

Yes, I'm a Witness, so obviously my comment's are from a witnesses POV.

I am happy to answer (civilised) questions, but right now I'm going to bed, I have to go to work in the morning.

 

[Australis]

I hate to tell you this but evolution has not been 'proven' to be true and is still a theory.

Surely its come beyond a theory when its possible to test evolutionary processes within a lab?

 

[KaneMortlock]

...

I'm afraid I couldn't face reading your entire manifesto Kane Mortlock - sorry! But I will say that hearing voices is commonly recognised as a sign of mental illness.

Did I mention I'm a PhD candidate in psychology?

Thanks for the tip on mental illness. More accurately stated; hallucinations and delusions are said to be symptoms of schizophrenia and other psychotic-type disorders.

Of course, to suggest that I was hallucinating, (or that I saw/heard something that wasn't really there), you would need to establish that what I said I saw and heard did not happen and wasn't really there - something you cannot do and have no evidence to prove.

Thankfully, the fact some people have jumped to an unevidenced conclusion that God does not exist does not make it so. So my questions to our friendly diagnosticians run something like:

1. Does God exist? (You don't know and proposing to answer "No" in the absence of any data to support such a conclusion is nothing other than a confession of your own unevidenced bias and weak intellect)
2. Is what I said I saw and heard possible? (Yes it is because you don't know if God exists and if God does exist then what I say I have seen and heard is perfectly possible)
3. Am I hallucinating? (You don't know because you don't know whether God exists and therefore whether what I have seen and heard is possible).

Thus, in my opinion the only people I rate as mentally ill to at this point are those who think someone not sharing their unevidenced worldview must therefore be mentally ill if they say something that contradicts it.

I can just hear my colleagues at work now:
"We think he's hallucinating because if he's not then God exists ... and we weren't counting on God existing so we really hope he's hallucinating ..." :lol:

Honestly though, I thought I covered this one of three most obvious ways to play the man not the ball when I mentioned that several miraculous things that have happened to me also happened in front of several other people? That is, the group hallucination called reality ...

Try again. This time your mind might have to stretch a little further than an ill founded stereotype. I don't mean to be mean, and sorry if I sound surly, but I've just heard it before and it really is a soft option as an intellectual response to what I have said.

 

[missllama]

PLEASE don't destroy this thread.

Yes, I'm a Witness, so obviously my comment's are from a witnesses POV.

I am happy to answer (civilised) questions, but right now I'm going to bed, I have to go to work in the morning.

i dont mean to ask personal questions but i have always wanted to no someones opinion and i dont really have religeous friends etc that i can ask this

have u ever been in a situation where u have had to choose if someone lives or dies? and if u were in that situation say ur child or ur partner was going to what would u choose?

is it classified as a sin to let them have the transplant or is it just the views on life? im not sure how it all works

and do u guys have the same bible as christians or lutherans etc?

shows how much i learnt about religeon back in my school days lol!

 

[Dipcdame]

Abbot, this thread was destroyed from the first post!!!!!!

WHat's your reason for not wanting it closed? Opportunity to preach and gain followers would be lost??

All I had to say I have already said, for fear of getting an infringement, or suspension, but I will say this, if ANY religion was SOOOOOOO good, no one would have to try to convert others, because they would all be there anyway, it wouldn't HAVE to be pushed down peoples throats. And here endeth the lesson from a former, confirmed "christian"!!

 

[Australis]

Awww Dipcdame, they just want to save your soul -
Kinda like when i needed to recruit 24 people for paintball
so i could go for free

 

[=bECS=]

Kinda like when i needed to recruit 24 people for paintball
so i could go for free

Sounds about right :lol:

 

[missllama]

i had religeon pushed down my throat
the same wk my friend at schools dad killed himself, teachers were saying in bible class that people who kill themselves go to hell....
that sort of stuff messes with kids heads if u ask me and thats what we were.. just kids
and all this stuf about going to hell if u havent asked god into ur heart by a certain age
and all these scary stories
thats what messed with my head as a kid

after all of that is till think that someone is up there but i didnt like the way i was tought it

i dont like the public edu system but i dont want to send my kids to a religeous school i will tell them what i learnt but let them make there own choices

if god really loves us all... he wouldnt send anyone to hell! jmo
no matter what we do...

 

[waruikazi]

Surely its come beyond a theory when its possible to test evolutionary processes within a lab?

That's the point, some parts of the theory have been tested, recreated and observed and others haven't. Parts are supported by DNA sequencing, the fossil record etc etc. Which all throw so much support behind evolution that it has been accepted as true but it has not been proven (And i do believe in evolution). That's why it is still Darwin's Theory of Evolution not Darwin's Fact of Evolution.

 

[Emzie]

Someone earlier said that religious people who , in my opinion, spend their entire lives preparing to die, will be very disappointed when their time comes. AND, I add, realise just what a mistake they made in killing their own families.

this is the reason i choose not to follow the religion i was brought up or any other

i would hate to live my hole life a certain way in hope of something better and then it not come true

and if it was true (as jahovah witnesses believe you will live forever in paradise after armagetten) i would not want to live forever with people i dont like or get along with

ild rather live my life how i want to now and when i die ill be buried in the ground being eaten by worms thats it (unless im cremated, then dust mites)

 

[jessb]

Try again. This time your mind might have to stretch a little further than an ill founded stereotype. I don't mean to be mean, and sorry if I sound surly, but I've just heard it before and it really is a soft option as an intellectual response to what I have said.

You ramble on for paragraphs about visions, hearing voices and feelings of invincibility and superiority.

Hey, if it walks like a duck...

 

[=bECS=]

You ramble on for paragraphs about visions, hearing voices and feelings of invincibility and superiority.

Hey, if it walks like a duck...

Hehehehe i remember seeing a guy like that at In the middle of the road at The Big W near Chullora when i was a kid.
Holding a sign and rambling about seeing Jesus.......... I remember him screaming something like 'jesus is coming, he spoke me, repent, you are sinners etc' in the car window at the lights.

This resulted in my dad pulling up the hand brake and going to open the door to deck him, and my Mum giving my dad the look, which resulted in him putting his seatbelt back on :lol: :lol: :lol:

Now that i think back on it, im pretty sure he must have been down the road just before getting some pretty good tabs or something along those lines.

 

[Australis]

That's the point, some parts of the theory have been tested, recreated and observed and others haven't. Parts are supported by DNA sequencing, the fossil record etc etc. Which all throw so much support behind evolution that it has been accepted as true but it has not been proven (And i do believe in evolution). That's why it is still Darwin's Theory of Evolution not Darwin's Fact of Evolution.

Its called a theory, as thats appropriate scientific language, unfortunately.
The theory is the explanation of the process, supported by facts etc.
Like the theory of gravity (although some Christian groups think this is a lie
also, and that its gods work).


There isn't a particular burden of proof that will elevate it beyond a theory,
as i kinda feel your implying?

 

[waruikazi]

Its called a theory, as thats appropriate scientific language, unfortunately.
The theory is the explanation of the process, supported by facts etc.
Like the theory of gravity (although some Christian groups think this is a lie
also, and that its gods work).


There isn't a particular burden of proof that will elevate it beyond a theory,
as i kinda feel your implying?

That's about what i'm implying, but it is an important thing to remember when ur debating a creationist. It is one of the first things they will throw at you "Evolution can't be proved, ergo Creation is true." Like it is the only other possibility.

:lol: