Are you religious?

[Vat69]

So I can't use the Bible as a historical source, even though multiple times it has been proven by secular history after centuries of doubt? The Bible's history is extremely accurate, down to minor details. Why, then, should we discount the existence of Jesus?

And, if that isn't enough, respected ancient historians (such as Flavius Josephus and Carius Cornelius Tacitus) refer to Jesus.

You can certainly use the Bible as a historical source, it can be a very useful one!
In the case of Jesus however, there are no contemporary sources that recorded his life. When you study history you use both 'primary' and 'seconday' sources. Primary sources were recorded at the time of the event they are recording. Secondary sources however are constructed after the event using either primary documents and/or other secondary sources and their bias becomes much greater. This means we should be very wary of using secondary sources as accurate depictions of an event. In the case of secondary sources around the BCE and beginning of the CE period we should be especially careful as they can be very innaccurate because hear-say and legend are often woven into accounts as fact.
While ancient historians do refer to Jesus and that he had followers who reffered to him as Christ, how many years after the fact are they referring to him? What sources are they using other than the work produced by Jesus' followers, who also only wrote about him a long time after his supposed death?
Not all of what the great classical historians write about actually happened. I mean, The Annals is a fabulous read but you'd be very mistaken if you believed it to be entirely accurate

 

[dailyskin]

Look, to be honest, I would LOVE to be religious. In many ways I think it would be extremely comforting. And I've TRIED! I've read, I've listened, I've attended many churches and temples. But I just can't buy it!

 

[tooninoz]

You are all as bad as each other! The Trendy Atheist v The Old Testament Bible Basher...
All trying to ram your beliefs/non-beliefs down each others throats and claim the Higher Moral Ground

Just live your life according to your own code. It's stress-free, and will save you on infractions.
Plus it frees up the forum...

 

[dailyskin]

You are all as bad as each other! The Trendy Atheist v The Old Testament Bible Basher...
All trying to ram your beliefs/non-beliefs down each others throats and claim the Higher Moral Ground

Just live your life according to your own code. It's stress-free, and will save you on infractions.
Plus it frees up the forum...

Actually some of us enjoy the discussion, and some healthy arguament that encourages us to think and opens our minds,.

 

[abbott75]

Actually some of us enjoy the discussion, and some healthy arguament that encourages us to think and opens our minds,.

Agreed

 

[dailyskin]

Much of one side of my family is Muslim, some are Buddhist, and there are a few Christians. I don't believe it all, and often disagree, but I enjoy talking about it.

 

[Montyshock]

2nd that.

Ohhh now abbott75 you better make another post it up 666........is this a sign....lol

 

[abbott75]

You can certainly use the Bible as a historical source, it can be a very useful one!
In the case of Jesus however, there are no contemporary sources that recorded his life. When you study history you use both 'primary' and 'seconday' sources. Primary sources were recorded at the time of the event they are recording. Secondary sources however are constructed after the event using either primary documents and/or other secondary sources and their bias becomes much greater. This means we should be very wary of using secondary sources as accurate depictions of an event. In the case of secondary sources around the BCE and beginning of the CE period we should be especially careful as they can be very innaccurate because hear-say and legend are often woven into accounts as fact.
While ancient historians do refer to Jesus and that he had followers who reffered to him as Christ, how many years after the fact are they referring to him? What sources are they using other than the work produced by Jesus' followers, who also only wrote about him a long time after his supposed death?
Not all of what the great classical historians write about actually happened. I mean, The Annals is a fabulous read but you'd be very mistaken if you believed it to be entirely accurate

Know all about sources, back in the ol' school days history was my forté.

Now you are asking me to prove the existence of a man, but not allowing me to use major primary sources as well as later secondary sources. A bit of a handicap, don't you think?

 

[dailyskin]

Anyhoo I'm off to indulge in My Religion - Snakology I hope to read this all tomorrow if it continues!

 

[MAIA77]

You are all as bad as each other! The Trendy Atheist v The Old Testament Bible Basher...
All trying to ram your beliefs/non-beliefs down each others throats and claim the Higher Moral Ground

Just live your life according to your own code. It's stress-free, and will save you on infractions.
Plus it frees up the forum...

People keep on learnin
Soldiers keep on warrin
World keep on turnin
Cause it wont be too long

Powers keep on lyin
While your people keep on dyin
World keep on turnin
Cause it wont be too long

Im so darn glad he let me try it again
Cause my last time on earth I lived a whole world of sin
Im so glad that I know more than I knew then
Gonna keep on tryin
Till I reach the highest ground

Teachers keep on teachin
Preachers keep on preachin
World keep on turnin
Cause it wont be too long
Oh no

Lovers keep on lovin
Believers keep on believin
Sleepers just stop sleepin
Cause it wont be too long
Oh no

Im so glad that he let me try it again
Cause my last time on earth I lived a whole world of sin
Im so glad that I know more than I knew then
Gonna keep on tryin
Till I reach my highest ground...whew!
Till I reach my highest ground
No ones gonna bring me down
Oh no
Till I reach my highest ground
Dont you let nobody bring you down (they'll sho nuff try)
God is gonna show you higher ground
Hes the only friend you have around

:lol:

Your comment indicates that you too are aiming for that higher moral ground :|

 

[abbott75]

2nd that.

Ohhh now abbott75 you better make another post it up 666........is this a sign....lol

:lol: Good one haha

 

[cement]

Well, by the pole it looks like sweet stuff all of us are religous... And thats a good thing.

 

[abbott75]

Well, by the pole it looks like sweet stuff all of us are religous... And thats a good thing.

Come on, a lot of us are enjoying the healthy debate on this thread. Please don't start it on the down-hill run.

 

[=bECS=]

You can certainly use the Bible as a historical source, it can be a very useful one!
In the case of Jesus however, there are no contemporary sources that recorded his life. When you study history you use both 'primary' and 'seconday' sources. Primary sources were recorded at the time of the event they are recording. Secondary sources however are constructed after the event using either primary documents and/or other secondary sources and their bias becomes much greater. This means we should be very wary of using secondary sources as accurate depictions of an event. In the case of secondary sources around the BCE and beginning of the CE period we should be especially careful as they can be very innaccurate because hear-say and legend are often woven into accounts as fact.
While ancient historians do refer to Jesus and that he had followers who reffered to him as Christ, how many years after the fact are they referring to him? What sources are they using other than the work produced by Jesus' followers, who also only wrote about him a long time after his supposed death?
Not all of what the great classical historians write about actually happened. I mean, The Annals is a fabulous read but you'd be very mistaken if you believed it to be entirely accurate

8)

YouTube - 5. Learn Christianity in 5 Minutes!

 

[Vat69]

Know all about sources, back in the ol' school days history was my forté.

Now you are asking me to prove the existence of a man, but not allowing me to use major primary sources as well as later secondary sources. A bit of a handicap, don't you think?

Who said anything about proving it without sources? That would be impossible. All I want is some credible references. That is, references that aren't produced by followers or obviously based on hear-say.
I'm particularly interested in these primary sources you claim to have. You'd be the first person ever to have found them.

 

[NotoriouS]

Come on, a lot of us are enjoying the healthy debate on this thread. Please don't start it on the down-hill run.

Agreed

 

[Montyshock]

Religion shouldnt be forced onto children from there parents. This is one thing I hate.
There are millions of children out there who are never given the chance to question it, or make up there own minds.

I have 3 children, 2 of which are in school learning religion. In year 1 and 2.
I would never think about forcing my beliefs onto them.

 

[Sarah24]

wow...i never realised how many atheists there were...just looking at the poll shows a clear majority...people (like my family) would always say that i was bad for being atheist and that i should follow the right way and be christian...hmmm...

 

[tooninoz]

Your comment indicates that you too are aiming for that higher moral ground :|

You read me like a book.

 

[NotoriouS]

8)

youtube - 5. Learn christianity in 5 minutes!

:d:d:d