Are you religious?

[=bECS=]

just got through watching the youtube series on Khaled Yasin, Christiantiy, Islam, and God that was posted in this thread - an amazing man who speaks well and with conviction - clearly rejects some of the writings of christianity but does not reject the notion of mary and jesus - just the interpretation.

would love to hear him speak someday!

the key to everything.. respect.

Sheikh Khaled Yasin was a foster child, he has lived in several homes with several different religious beliefs growing up as a child.
I think this is one thing that led him to look into all religions, hes is extremely knowledgeable in aspects of all major religions.

In the Qur'an Jesus (pbuh) and Mary are both mentioned.
We Muslims believe that Jesus (pbuh) was a prophet sent to the lost people of Israel and not the son of god, and that Mohommed (pbuh) was the last prophet.

Muslims actually believe in parts of the Bible and Torah, these in their original form were the holy books sent before the Qur'an.

They were corrupted and changed by human hands during translation over time ( how many times has the bible been re-written?), which is why Allah revealed the Qur'an to Mohommed (pbuh), and we were instructed to follow only the The Holy Qur'an and the true teachings of Mohommed (pbuh)

I am by no means trying to convert people, this is haraam or wrong, if someone wishes to convert to Islam it has to be their own free will. (which is why you dont get ladies in scarves knocking at your door asking if you have heard to good word )
I am simply stating what we believe and hopefully helping others to see the religion for what it is.

Unfortunately most of what people know of Islam is what the media has portrayed ie terroism etc.

As for the comments i am sure are to come....... why blow yourselves up etc, again that is against the true teachings of Islam, but in all aspects of life, desperate people will do desperate things, just as fanatics will do fanatical things.

 

[Dipcdame]

If it offends you that much, next time JWs come, tell them you do not want them to return. You will be placed on a list of houses where they don't call.

Done that, MANY times............. they just don't get the message - THAT'S why it offends me! And those who use a forum of an entirely different subject as a vehicle to push their faith and preach to all and sundry on that forum.... THAT offends me. There are religious forums for this sort of thing, where religious people can go and debate theology till the sun don't shine........................ so why come bother others here......... this activity is tantamount to knocking on peoples doors again, except here, you're already in the home, and have an audience of far greater numbers............. SOME may want to sit and do this with you......... start a social group in here then, just do it where you don't annoy others, same asa when you knock on doors!

 

[megrim]

Sheikh Khaled Yasin was a foster child, he has lived in several homes with several different religious beliefs growing up as a child.
I think this is one thing that led him to look into all religions, hes is extremely knowledgeable in aspects of all major religions.

In the Qur'an Jesus (pbuh) and Mary are both mentioned.
We Muslims believe that Jesus (pbuh) was a prophet sent to the lost people of Israel and not the son of god, and that Mohommed (pbuh) was the last prophet.

Muslims actually believe in parts of the Bible and Torah, these in their original form were the holy books sent before the Qur'an.

They were corrupted and changed by human hands during translation over time ( how many times has the bible been re-written?), which is why Allah revealed the Qur'an to Mohommed (pbuh), and we were instructed to follow only the The Holy Qur'an and the true teachings of Mohommed (pbuh)

I am by no means trying to convert people, this is haraam or wrong, if someone wishes to convert to Islam it has to be their own free will. (which is why you dont get ladies in scarves knocking at your door asking if you have heard to good word )
I am simply stating what we believe and hopefully helping other to see the religion for what it is.

Unfortunately most of what people know of Islam is what the media has portrayed ie terroism etc.

As for the comments i am sure are to come....... why blow yourselves up etc, again that is against the true teachings of Islam, but in all aspects of life, desperate people will do desperate things, just as fanatics will do fanatical things.

Thankyou for that. 'Twas an interesting read.
I once attended a lecture back in Iceland from a muslim fellow. He spoke of similarity between the Islamic world and the Viking world. Namely a culture of honesty, generosity and hospitality.
My real beef with the Islamic world comes when religion and state are combined. I don't like religious dogma becoming legal law.

 

[Emzie]

This reminded me of something from my childhood. I can remember going up to my mother when I was about 8 and showing her a letter from the school about an upcoming excursion and asking if I could go but she told me she couldn't afford it. Funnily enough though, at the time she was shoving a $20 note in an envelope that her church had given her. (This is 30 years ago when $20 was a lot of money). The school I went to didn't organise many excursions and it was awful having to stay behind on my own while all my friends went off and had a great time. For all her hard work in trying to force me into becoming a christian, this one act was probably the start of me turning away from it.

This church not only would pass around the plate for everyone to donate money to during the service, but they 'pre-printed' envelopes with surnames so that they knew just how much everyone was giving. Then they would stand at the door as you walked in so you could hand it over.

i went to a church the other day for the first time for a christening, they even have a place for credit card details

now how do people buy into this sortof crap

so many things catholics believe i really cant stand them, makes for a good Christmas since all my bf's fam are catholic and i have a big mouth and speak my mind

 

[draqonfly]

Dipcdame

i agree with you, atheist are also good ppl, you dont need to be in a religion to be good, but this thread was talking about religion so thats why i say religion teaches ppl to be good.

but to me if an evil person gets to be killed, it makes me happy. To be honest. Because i have met ppl in that area of life. Until you have met one or two, you might / might not agree, but thats up to you. There is no wrong of right answer to it.

 

[caustichumor]

As an athiest, I have to say I don't beleive in a God. That is as far as it goes, I don't spend my days trying to convince humanity that I am right.

 

[=bECS=]

Thankyou for that. 'Twas an interesting read.
I once attended a lecture back in Iceland from a muslim fellow. He spoke of similarity between the Islamic world and the Viking world. Namely a culture of honesty, generosity and hospitality.
My real beef with the Islamic world comes when religion and state are combined. I don't like religious dogma becoming legal law.

You will find most laws are deemed from religious stand points pretty much everywhere.
For example, if you go to court of law, what are you required to do before you take the stand?

 

[abbott75]

I don't agree however, that atheists are as vigilant in their efforts to convert people or change their minds on things as religious folk.
After all, we're not trying to 'save' anyone.

Most of the comments on other sites I've read seem to be more about proving religious people wrong than atheists right. (And they aren't anywhere near as tame as on APS!)

I don't have any problem with people not believing in God. But coming straight out and saying that I'm wrong, I'm stupid for believing will offend me. Whenever I say anything from a religious point of view, I will always back it up with scripture. It seems (most) atheists who want to prove me wrong can't back up their views, they just say there is no god "because". And they are usually very arrogant about it.

I think it's pretty clear from this thread that I'm more than happy to speak with atheists on an adult and respectful level

 

[Dipcdame]

Dipcdame

i agree with you, atheist are also good ppl, you dont need to be in a religion to be good, but this thread was talking about religion so thats why i say religion teaches ppl to be good.

but to me if an evil person gets to be killed, it makes me happy. To be honest. Because i have met ppl in that area of life. Until you have met one or two, you might / might not agree, but thats up to you. There is no wrong of right answer to it.

Dragonfly, I've met more than one or two.. my husband was a Correctional officer for many years till he retired last year..................... I met many in the street who recognised him. I still don't believe they deserve to die, that's just bad bad bad in itself........................ I wold never wish anyone dead, no matter what they'd done. But then, I guess that's the difference between a non religious person and a "religious" person who says only goodness comes from their teachings!!!!

 

[draqonfly]

yeah , i think i have an evil side in me.....

............. nasty !

but then again religion didnt teach me to have this evil feeling in me.... i guess its because of the life experience that moulded me to feel this way towards those that caused harm to me before.

Personal feelings of wanting to have revenge have crossed my mind some times, so strong that i couldnt sleep a whole night.

But religion is like a school, teaching you their way of study. You have good and bad students, just like the real schools of today. One individuals wrong doing doesnt mean the whole school is crap. It is only crap if the whole school teaches that way.

We are all human, no one is the same, no one is a robot to be programmed to be able to represent what that religion is about.

You have some pedophiles in religions that molests choir boys. You have ppl who uses charity / religion as a scam to suck money from ppl.

To be honest there are some religion that i totally hate. ( my evilness at work) because i disagree with its rules and beliefs.

But it doesnt mean i hate the "person" that believes in that religion, i just hate that "religion" itself.

 

[megrim]

You will find most laws are deemed from religious stand points pretty much everywhere.
For example, if you go to court of law, what are you required to do before you take the stand?

Oh I wasn't arguing that it's unique to the Muslim world.

I will say however that most other areas of earth have at least made efforts and taken steps to seperate church from state. And with good reason.
Thankfully in this country, most of Europe and perhaps to a lesser extent in America these days 'religious law' and common law mostly only overlap in areas of common sence.

I want my law makers as impartial as possible, laws made on basis of religious superstition can start out simple and seemingly 'for the good', but it's a slippery slope, as history has shown us time and time again.

And those who don't learn from mistakes are usually doomed to repeat them.

 

[abbott75]

Done that, MANY times............. they just don't get the message - THAT'S why it offends me! And those who use a forum of an entirely different subject as a vehicle to push their faith and preach to all and sundry on that forum.... THAT offends me. There are religious forums for this sort of thing, where religious people can go and debate theology till the sun don't shine........................ so why come bother others here......... this activity is tantamount to knocking on peoples doors again, except here, you're already in the home, and have an audience of far greater numbers............. SOME may want to sit and do this with you......... start a social group in here then, just do it where you don't annoy others, same asa when you knock on doors!

I'm not using APS as "a vehicle to push my faith"! If this thread is offending you, please don't read it. This thread has 31 pages of people enjoying an open airing of views. You don't have to read it.

This thread is in Chit Chat. If you want to speak about reptiles, scroll up to the herp section

 

[megrim]

Whenever I say anything from a religious point of view, I will always back it up with scripture.

I think that highlights a pretty big problem with these sorts of debates.

When you quote 'scripture', you might as well be quoting the back of a cornflakes box for all it means to an atheist.

I'm not trying to belittle whatever scripts you think are factual, just pointing out that in the scientific field, those scripts account for nothing.
If you quoted up to date, thoroughly peer-reviewed scientific journals you may have a bit more luck.

Reading back on this it seems ruder than I mean it to be. I apologise, my english is not perfect, I hope you understand what I'm trying to get at

 

[English]

Sheikh Khaled Yasin was a foster child, he has lived in several homes with several different religious beliefs growing up as a child.
I think this is one thing that led him to look into all religions, hes is extremely knowledgeable in aspects of all major religions.

In the Qur'an Jesus (pbuh) and Mary are both mentioned.
We Muslims believe that Jesus (pbuh) was a prophet sent to the lost people of Israel and not the son of god, and that Mohommed (pbuh) was the last prophet.

Muslims actually believe in parts of the Bible and Torah, these in their original form were the holy books sent before the Qur'an.

They were corrupted and changed by human hands during translation over time ( how many times has the bible been re-written?), which is why Allah revealed the Qur'an to Mohommed (pbuh), and we were instructed to follow only the The Holy Qur'an and the true teachings of Mohommed (pbuh)

I am by no means trying to convert people, this is haraam or wrong, if someone wishes to convert to Islam it has to be their own free will. (which is why you dont get ladies in scarves knocking at your door asking if you have heard to good word )
I am simply stating what we believe and hopefully helping others to see the religion for what it is.

Unfortunately most of what people know of Islam is what the media has portrayed ie terroism etc.

As for the comments i am sure are to come....... why blow yourselves up etc, again that is against the true teachings of Islam, but in all aspects of life, desperate people will do desperate things, just as fanatics will do fanatical things.

i try to look for likeness in people, not difference.. this has helped me a long in many ways and is most likely one of the reasons i am open to many of the elements of religion - thus allows me to express tolerence of each difference because when you step back you will actually see that we are all on the same page more so than not.

 

[abbott75]

I think that highlights a pretty big problem with these sorts of debates.

When you quote 'scripture', you might as well be quoting the back of a cornflakes box for all it means to an atheist.

I'm not trying to belittle whatever scripts you think are factual, just pointing out that in the scientific field, those scripts account for nothing.
If you quoted up to date, thoroughly peer-reviewed scientific journals you may have a bit more luck.

Reading back on this it seems ruder than I mean it to be. I apologise, my english is not perfect, I hope you understand what I'm trying to get at

I don't think you're being rude at all!

What I mean by referencing scripture is by doing that I'm showing that what I say is from the Bible, not my own thoughts or interpretations.

 

[GSXR_Boy]

Abbot: Just curios what your fellow Js's think of you keeping reptiles. Is there a similar belief as the Christian teaching that snakes are evil as they led Eve into temptation and are destined to crawl on their bellys the rest of their life? ( or something like that ).

For the record i'm not religious and i'm not baptised. But having said that my pommie relatives came to Australia in 1802 ( not as convicts ) and built one of the first churches in Australia at Ebenezor in NSW. Sometimes i wonder if they ever tried to push it onto the local aboriginal people in the area. :|
I don't really care what religion people are or where people are from.

 

[jessb]

I think that highlights a pretty big problem with these sorts of debates.

When you quote 'scripture', you might as well be quoting the back of a cornflakes box for all it means to an atheist.

I'm not trying to belittle whatever scripts you think are factual, just pointing out that in the scientific field, those scripts account for nothing.
If you quoted up to date, thoroughly peer-reviewed scientific journals you may have a bit more luck.

Reading back on this it seems ruder than I mean it to be. I apologise, my english is not perfect, I hope you understand what I'm trying to get at

Exactly what I was going to say. Using a book of faith as "evidence" to back up your claims and beliefs (which are derived from said book of faith anyway) can hardly be ued as irrefutable proof. I mean I could use The Folk of the Faraway Tree to back up my claim that ther are a revolving selction of worlds in the tree at he bottom of my garden, but that wouldn't make it so.

Atheists don't use "just because" as evidence to back up their claim, they use scientific evidence such as proof of evolution to dispute religious stories such as Creationism, and demand some kind of proof before they will accept the existence of an omnipotent being. In the absence of this proof, they argue that there is no support for the claim of the existence of God.

 

[megrim]

I don't think you're being rude at all!

What I mean by referencing scripture is by doing that I'm showing that what I say is from the Bible, not my own thoughts or interpretations.

Aaah I see. You're highlighting that the scriptures you follow proclaim it directly, and it's not something you interpreted from a vague passage. I get ya.

Though my initial thoughts lead to worry about who translated those scripts into the ones you follow now, and all the translations before that. Even on a simple level I find scripture difficult to accept purely based on 2 thousand years of telling and retelling.

I understand the basics are all still there, but the devil's in the detail as they say, and said details often become dogma.

 

[Jewly]

You will find most laws are deemed from religious stand points pretty much everywhere.
For example, if you go to court of law, what are you required to do before you take the stand?

I'm sure that if you do not wish to swear on the bible then they can't make you. I certainly wouldn't do it and they can threaten whatever they like but I would never do it.

 

[jessb]

the main thing to every religion is that there is goodness it them. it teaches ppl to be good. doesnt matter what type it is or whatever the colour of the book its from.... to be good is good enough for me.

As long as you are good, and the religion you believe in teaches goodness, then theres no harm for what you believe in. If it doesnt do you harm, its good anyways.

But every religion teaches that it is the only true faith. So by its very existence it is creating division and difference between people with diference beliefs, which at its most extreme leads to hatred.

As an atheist I am a bit offended that you are implying that religion is required to be a "good" person. Why can't you just wish that all people will be good people, rather than needing to be part of a "good" religion.

In my earlier post I also point out that all religions (in fact any group that has influence over lage numbers of people) is open to corruption and abuse of power - look at the abuses committed by the Catholic Church, cult leaders, fundamentalists on all sides of the fence.

Some one gets murdered, maybe that person who was killed deserved it because he was a bad person to many others and could even cause more mischief and harm to others in future if he wasnt disposed of.

What if they weren't a bad person? Are you implying that everyone who suffers a premature death somehow "deserves it"? Plenty of good people die through violence, disease or accident - how do you explain that? "God works in mysterious ways"???

Or just perhaps, people die because we are animals - we live in complex societies with relationships and violence, we contract diseases and sometimes we unintentionally walk out in front of buses. We die because we are living organisms and all living organisms eventually die. End of story!