Scutellatus
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Australian Reptile Park get three Oenpelli Pythons.
- Thread starter Scutellatus
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Pauls_Pythons
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I had wondered where Gavin was up to with this project.
Will be interesting to see if they come into household collections over the coming years.
Will be interesting to see if they come into household collections over the coming years.
Bushfire
Well-Known Member
Its interesting that he has / is breeding them but is restricted as nsw wont let anyone import them and are reluctant to for the foreseeable future at the moment.
SpottedPythons
Well-Known Member
In mid-2016 he said that he had produced 14 more baby Oenpellis... hopefully we'll be able to get them soon! 
That will just mean people in other states will work with them until they're common enough for NSW to come on board. It's not like people at this stage will slow their breeding efforts down because they can't specifically sell to NSW. It will be interesting to see if the market treats them like another Rough-scaled Python or like an albino Olive. The Rough-scaled Python was easy to pick but I'm not so sure about these. Cool snakes either way.
I'd say the Savu Python is the world's rarest, at least of the known pythons.
longirostris
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What I am curious about with ARP getting three OP's from Gavin is what are they going to do with the offspring if and when they start breeding them. Given they are not on the keepers species schedule in NSW and as I understand it, every private keeper who has tried to get a permit to bring them into NSW has been knocked back on the basis that they are not a scheduled species, it would be extremely unfair if ARP was allowed to fill the void that has been artificially created by the pigheaded refusal of NPWS to allow NSW keepers the opportunity to import these animals directly from Gavin. In fact if this behaviour took place in the private commercial sector, several potential breaches of the Trade Practices Act 1974 could come into play.
For me the thing that is really annoying about this situation is that I am told that Gavin had verbal assurances from NSW NPWS, that it would be unlikely that he would have any problems exporting OP's into NSW to private keepers when he outlined his proposal to them, which was around the same time as he embarked on his journey to bring these snakes into captivity more than 10 years ago. Gavin realised even all the way back then that his biggest market in Australia was always going to be NSW, with likely more than 60% plus of the demand for his OP's coming from NSW alone. So before even setting foot on the Arnhem Land escarpment to start to look for these snakes, He spent literally 3 or 4 years negotiating with all the stakeholders involved in the project to make sure that it would work. These stakeholders included but are not limited to, all the state wildlife licensing authorities around Australia, including and most importantly NPWS NSW, as well as the traditional owners of the land, the NT government, elected local and state government representatives and so on. One or two of these discussions were not successful but the ones that mattered and were important to the viability of the project from Gavin's perspective were. All of these discussions many of them face to face involving interstate travel etc, were conducted at Gavin's own personal cost. The amount of money invested into this project by Gavin to date would make most people say WTF. Sure there was always an intended return from the first groups of individuals sold into the market just as happened with Rough Scaled Pythons, but this return Gavin knew was always only going to be short term before supply started to meet demand and pricing adjusted accordingly.
I don't know if Gavin has some sort of agreement with ARP regarding the offspring, I certainly hope he has. I know if I had been advising him and had I known he was sending three OP's to the ARP I would have advised him to enter into some sort of arrangement about the offspring (much like pedigree litters from champion bitches in the dog world), especially when he knew even back in OCT/NOV last year when he sent the animals to ARP that NSW NPWS were blocking every attempt by private keepers to import OP's for their own collections and breeding efforts.
In the fifteen years I have lived in NSW, I have never had any issues with importing off schedule dragon species. The golden rule is that they must be legally obtained either under capture permit or bred in captivity and I have always been able to demonstrate that the animals I am importing have been acquired following this principle. Its only in the last couple of years that this common sense approach by NSW NPWS has changed to the point where the current situation is if its not on schedule then its not allowed. Even demonstration of the fact that it has legally been obtained or bred in another state is no longer considered. Only last year I had the ridiculous situation of being refused a permit for an off schedule species that I wanted to import when I had already been granted a permit 3 years earlier for exactly the same species. It was only after I spoke to management and pointed out the ridiculousness of their position and subsequent refusal that they agreed to give me the import permit for the animals I wanted.
I mention this here and I know I am drawing heat onto myself but the current approach to wildlife management by virtually all authorities in Australia is flawed and lacks cohesion and direction. In many instances it is also grossly unfair as I have demonstrated in my earlier comments. I have spoken about this previously in many forums and quite frankly feel the time has come for those of us that are affected by these bureaucratic management systems that are becoming more and more inflexible to stand up and actually push and advocate for change. I guess its easier for me because at 60 years of age most of my keeping life is behind me, so any heat I bring upon myself is probably of little consequence. I have always maintained a low profile for several reasons including to try and avoid confrontation with wildlife authorities, but I still fail to see why these type of restrictions exist when no laws are being broken to procure the animals people want to keep.
I feel for Gavin because as far as I am concerned he is being treated unfairly albeit indirectly by the NSW NPWS and that unfair treatment is impacting him financially and putting the whole OP project in jeopardy. Worse for me is that right now I have negotiated through a third party, real and legal collect permits for 2 more species of dragon that are not on current schedules in Australia that I really want to work with in my collection, that I know I am going to have a sh** fight on my hands with NPWS to import into NSW for my collection. Looks like a visit to my local state rep is on the cards. Good thing I have met him personally many times in the past and he happens to be a high profile minister in the current government. I don't know if he can do anything for me about this but I am sure going to bring it to his attention if I have to.
If anybody wants to have a go at importing OP's into NSW, I suggest you use the following approach.
Get in touch with Gavin Bedford and negotiate a price
Download and print out a paper import export application, DONT EVEN TRY TO USE THE ELECTRONIC LODGEMENT process because it doesn't recognise anything other than scheduled species.
Include the species code 2626 (this is the species code that NPWS have allocated for OP's)
Make sure you include importer and exporter details
Scan the document and forward it as an email to NPWS (this way they have to respond to you), don't mail it, they lose every return I mail to them, but that's another story for the telling some day perhaps.
GOOD LUCK,
Mark Hawker
For me the thing that is really annoying about this situation is that I am told that Gavin had verbal assurances from NSW NPWS, that it would be unlikely that he would have any problems exporting OP's into NSW to private keepers when he outlined his proposal to them, which was around the same time as he embarked on his journey to bring these snakes into captivity more than 10 years ago. Gavin realised even all the way back then that his biggest market in Australia was always going to be NSW, with likely more than 60% plus of the demand for his OP's coming from NSW alone. So before even setting foot on the Arnhem Land escarpment to start to look for these snakes, He spent literally 3 or 4 years negotiating with all the stakeholders involved in the project to make sure that it would work. These stakeholders included but are not limited to, all the state wildlife licensing authorities around Australia, including and most importantly NPWS NSW, as well as the traditional owners of the land, the NT government, elected local and state government representatives and so on. One or two of these discussions were not successful but the ones that mattered and were important to the viability of the project from Gavin's perspective were. All of these discussions many of them face to face involving interstate travel etc, were conducted at Gavin's own personal cost. The amount of money invested into this project by Gavin to date would make most people say WTF. Sure there was always an intended return from the first groups of individuals sold into the market just as happened with Rough Scaled Pythons, but this return Gavin knew was always only going to be short term before supply started to meet demand and pricing adjusted accordingly.
I don't know if Gavin has some sort of agreement with ARP regarding the offspring, I certainly hope he has. I know if I had been advising him and had I known he was sending three OP's to the ARP I would have advised him to enter into some sort of arrangement about the offspring (much like pedigree litters from champion bitches in the dog world), especially when he knew even back in OCT/NOV last year when he sent the animals to ARP that NSW NPWS were blocking every attempt by private keepers to import OP's for their own collections and breeding efforts.
In the fifteen years I have lived in NSW, I have never had any issues with importing off schedule dragon species. The golden rule is that they must be legally obtained either under capture permit or bred in captivity and I have always been able to demonstrate that the animals I am importing have been acquired following this principle. Its only in the last couple of years that this common sense approach by NSW NPWS has changed to the point where the current situation is if its not on schedule then its not allowed. Even demonstration of the fact that it has legally been obtained or bred in another state is no longer considered. Only last year I had the ridiculous situation of being refused a permit for an off schedule species that I wanted to import when I had already been granted a permit 3 years earlier for exactly the same species. It was only after I spoke to management and pointed out the ridiculousness of their position and subsequent refusal that they agreed to give me the import permit for the animals I wanted.
I mention this here and I know I am drawing heat onto myself but the current approach to wildlife management by virtually all authorities in Australia is flawed and lacks cohesion and direction. In many instances it is also grossly unfair as I have demonstrated in my earlier comments. I have spoken about this previously in many forums and quite frankly feel the time has come for those of us that are affected by these bureaucratic management systems that are becoming more and more inflexible to stand up and actually push and advocate for change. I guess its easier for me because at 60 years of age most of my keeping life is behind me, so any heat I bring upon myself is probably of little consequence. I have always maintained a low profile for several reasons including to try and avoid confrontation with wildlife authorities, but I still fail to see why these type of restrictions exist when no laws are being broken to procure the animals people want to keep.
I feel for Gavin because as far as I am concerned he is being treated unfairly albeit indirectly by the NSW NPWS and that unfair treatment is impacting him financially and putting the whole OP project in jeopardy. Worse for me is that right now I have negotiated through a third party, real and legal collect permits for 2 more species of dragon that are not on current schedules in Australia that I really want to work with in my collection, that I know I am going to have a sh** fight on my hands with NPWS to import into NSW for my collection. Looks like a visit to my local state rep is on the cards. Good thing I have met him personally many times in the past and he happens to be a high profile minister in the current government. I don't know if he can do anything for me about this but I am sure going to bring it to his attention if I have to.
If anybody wants to have a go at importing OP's into NSW, I suggest you use the following approach.
Get in touch with Gavin Bedford and negotiate a price
Download and print out a paper import export application, DONT EVEN TRY TO USE THE ELECTRONIC LODGEMENT process because it doesn't recognise anything other than scheduled species.
Include the species code 2626 (this is the species code that NPWS have allocated for OP's)
Make sure you include importer and exporter details
Scan the document and forward it as an email to NPWS (this way they have to respond to you), don't mail it, they lose every return I mail to them, but that's another story for the telling some day perhaps.
GOOD LUCK,
Mark Hawker
Last edited:
Neil j
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I wonder what’s a hatchling worth. Qlder so allowed to have but can anybody afford them here. I do collect a few species nothing of that value though.
[doublepost=1527404351,1527403849][/doublepost]Personally I wish n south could keep them and crash the price like they did with the much loved Morelia carinata. Which is hands down a better python imo
[doublepost=1527404351,1527403849][/doublepost]Personally I wish n south could keep them and crash the price like they did with the much loved Morelia carinata. Which is hands down a better python imo
I have been following Dr.Bedfords expeditions/forays ? into the wild searching for Oenpelli's for some time and am happy to see the progress so far. It would be great to see the authorities release them to the public because not only would it create a fallback population to repopulate the wild but would increase interest in these giant childrens pythons ,both good things.
BUT let's hope the boofocrats don't interfere like they did before when they confiscated the collection of the only other person who managed to captive breed these elusive creatures and then somehow manage to kill them all.
BUT let's hope the boofocrats don't interfere like they did before when they confiscated the collection of the only other person who managed to captive breed these elusive creatures and then somehow manage to kill them all.
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