Bluey help - MBD

[NotoriouS]

Hi guys,

A bit of background info: I purchased a baby bluey from the Castle Hill expo last month. He's been great, he gets quite active, also loves digging... regular bluey stuff. He feeds on peas, carrots, catfood, and occasional bok choy. He is fussy though - he'll pick out the peas and usually leaves the rest. I dust the food with calcium supplement. The tank has a warm end of 34, cold end of 24.

Issue: I went to give him his daily feed, and when I picked him up I noticed that he has a dip in his back (as per attached photo). It's the first time I have noticed it, I throughly inspected him 2 days ago as he was in the process of shedding and didn't notice anything then. I did my reading and stuff prior to purchase and this looks like a case of MBD. What I don't get is that I powder his food with Calcium and he also gets sunlight so what could be causing this? Any help would be appreciated! Also, I have read that this is irreversible? Is this the case or is there anything I can do to try and fix it? It doesn't seem to have troubled him that much as he is still active and still eating. So yea, any advice on how to fix this would be great!

Thanks guys!

 

[NotoriouS]

O yea, and he does have hiding spots etc. in the enclosure.

 

[bump73]

Could possibly be from climbing the sides of enclosure to get out. If they do it enough they can end up with a kink just before the base of the tail....Have you noticed it doing this kind of thing as some tend to do it costantly especially against a surface they can see through. I had one that used to do it constantly in a fish tank i kept it in but it stopped as soon as i moved it into a wooden enclosure...

Hope that helps
Ben

 

[Lonewolf]

is there any thing in the enclosure that could fall on him and dose he still use his back legs

 

[NotoriouS]

No, theres nothing that can fall on him. He has a flat water dish, and a hollow log. I have also not seem him trying to climb on the walls. His back legs are fine, it's just that the 'dent' in his back has become prominent, whereas 2 days ago it was non-existent. I will try upping the calcium intake to see if there's an improvement. Otherwise will have to make a vet appointment I guess.

 

[JasonL]

High temps cause rapid growth, rapid growth and poor diet = soft bones, soft bones and glass tanks that cause the lizard to climb and sit funny cause lumpy backbone.

 

[Flewy]

High temps cause rapid growth, rapid growth and poor diet = soft bones, soft bones and glass tanks that cause the lizard to climb and sit funny cause lumpy backbone.

OK, so you're saying 34 is too high, and the diet above is no good? What do you suggest instead?

 

[JasonL]

It's a combination of all, not just from one thing alone. 34 isn't too high, but it is if the reptile is getting 34 for longer than say 5 hours, though personally I keep temps for EBTs at around a 25 ambient, with a hot spot (max temp within the hotspot doesn't matter as long as the ambient is cooler at 25), and as for diet, I'd be looking at insects, snails (collected, aged and frozen), flowers, fruits as a primary source, then jellymeat / egg (incuding crushed up shell) mix as a "filler", and as for enclosures, with BT's, it is VERY important that they are happy within their confines and don't continue to stress and try to escape and sit up on the glass, usually a large timber enclosure with numerous hides and some substrate for the animal to bury itself will help prevent this

 

[NotoriouS]

It's a combination of all, not just from one thing alone. 34 isn't too high, but it is if the reptile is getting 34 for longer than say 5 hours, though personally I keep temps for EBTs at around a 25 ambient, with a hot spot (max temp within the hotspot doesn't matter as long as the ambient is cooler at 25), and as for diet, I'd be looking at insects, snails (collected, aged and frozen), flowers, fruits as a primary source, then jellymeat / egg (incuding crushed up shell) mix as a "filler", and as for enclosures, with BT's, it is VERY important that they are happy within their confines and don't continue to stress and try to escape and sit up on the glass, usually a large timber enclosure with numerous hides and some substrate for the animal to bury itself will help prevent this

Thanks JasonL! I think the temps are fine, I meant to say that the "hotspot" is at 34. I will try to vary his diet with your recommendations. Will keep you guys posted! Also, ishis current condition reversible? Or will I just be able to stop it from getting worse?

Thanks again guys!

 

[Chelle]

Oshakoor,
The temperatures are perfect, being too hot is not going to make your bluey grow too fast... eating too much wil lol.
You are right, the bump on his back is a form of MBD. In blue tongues, the most likely cause is UVB issues. It is great that you are giving him vegetables as well as providing the calcium supplements but none of it means anything unless he is getting enough UVB light. Blueys generally spend about 90% of their time on the ground, and can not get close enough to their UV light (unlike beardies who seek it out and climb close to it). If you speak with anyone about reptile UV lights they will say that they have a 30cm working range, but in reality, no significant amount of UV can reach further than 10cm in these lights.

The bump in your bluey IS reversible, if you act now!
Keep calcium supplementing your bluey once or twice a week, even using a good liquid calcium like T-Rex Bone Aid, try and feed as many high calcium veges as possible (eg chinese green vegetables, celery leaves, brocolli stems) and please do not feed high phosphorus or high oxalate veges such as rhubarb, potato, sweet potato etc. Insects are generally to high in phosphorus (even crickets) and especially do not feed mealworms (way too high in phosphorus).
If you can, every day take him out into the sun for about 10 to 15 minutes. You will find this bump will completely go away within a week or two - but keep your high calcium diet up for at least another 2 weeks before going back to normal.
The bump was not caused by the bluey climbing up the walls, but the weakness of the bone in the blueys back allowed the fold in the back to occur after climbing.

Let us know how you go!

 

[JasonL]

The bump is not reversable, though as the lizard grows the body mass may hide it somewhat at best, though it will always be visable. Personally, I think UV on Bluetongues is a waste of time, heating causes more calcium problems in reptiles than anything else.

 

[NotoriouS]

Thanks guys!! He get's sunlight as his enclosure is next to the window, as for me taking him out into the sun myself, that I can do only the weekends since it's dark by the time I get back from work. I will definitely change his diet and try to put him under a more sunny window perhaps. Also, I do not turn off the heat at night - should I be doing this?

 

[liberty]

u need direct sunlight mate
glass takes out a large percentage of any UV the sun gives off

but agreeing with jason u need a more "natural" diet possibly.

 

[NotoriouS]

Thanks guys! I gave it green beans, carrots, corn (all sprinkled with calcium) and a medium sized snail as well. He chomped through it all! I then put him in some luike warm water to assist him in removing the remaining unshed portions.. and it all came off easily. I dried him up then but he's been sneezing since he ate the snail :?

 

[JasonL]

Thanks guys! I gave it green beans, carrots, corn (all sprinkled with calcium) and a medium sized snail as well. He chomped through it all! I then put him in some luike warm water to assist him in removing the remaining unshed portions.. and it all came off easily. I dried him up then but he's been sneezing since he ate the snail :?

Just be careful with snails, if you collect them, you can keep them alive for many months in a cold dry bin with good airation to prevent a moisture buildup, under the house or a similar dark area, this way any sick snails will die off before feeding, then freeze them as snails / slugs carry liver fluke, a nasty parasite. The lizards like them just as much defrosted as they do fresh.

 

[redbellybite]

They love snails ...mine eats them down no worries ...the only thing left is a slither of outer shell...I love watching him eat snails ..I have also crushed up egg shell and added it to cat food ...hope all goes well with your bluey ...

 

[Chelle]

The bump is not reversable, though as the lizard grows the body mass may hide it somewhat at best, though it will always be visable. Personally, I think UV on Bluetongues is a waste of time, heating causes more calcium problems in reptiles than anything else.

With all do respect JasonL, what on earth are you talking about? Heating has absolutely nothing to do with calcium problems in reptiles - except perhaps that it helps with digesting food that has calcium in it!! It is really important to keep temperatures correct, but it has nothing to do with MBD or NSHP.
Not all MBD related bumps and distortions are reversible, but the bump that I see in the picture definitely is - when given the right treatment...

 

[JasonL]

With all do respect JasonL, what on earth are you talking about? Heating has absolutely nothing to do with calcium problems in reptiles - except perhaps that it helps with digesting food that has calcium in it!! It is really important to keep temperatures correct, but it has nothing to do with MBD or NSHP.
Not all MBD related bumps and distortions are reversible, but the bump that I see in the picture definitely is - when given the right treatment...

LOL :lol: Ok then...

 

[Chelle]

Ok then...
If I am so ignorant... explain to me what heating has to do with it...

 

[squishi]

my blue tongue actually came up with a lump like that when he was only 6 months old mine wasn't caused from calcium deficiency or lighting problems. i took my little guy to the vet when the lump first started and he has actualy had a birth defect and the vet tld me that the lump was irrevesable but he also assured me that the bluey was not in any pain. since then he has gown to more lumps but i still take hime for reular visits to the vet to make sure he is not in pain. i think if you are worried to take him to the vet. my bluey is now 1 1/2 years old