Broad Headed Snakes

[Nephrurus]

Hey all,
I've been reading up a bit on Broad-Headed Snakes Hoplocephalus bungaroides and am wondering where the progeny of the animals raped from the wild back in 1997 have gone. Here's a bit of the abstract of one paper i read (easy to copy and paste!).

"H. bungaroides was stable over 1992-1996, but declined dramatically in 1997, coincident with evidence of illegal collecting, possibly stimulated by a government amnesty that allowed pet owners to obtain permits for illegally held reptiles. Survivorship analyses revealed that 85% of adult females disappeared from the population in 1997. There was no such effect on male survivorship, suggesting that snake collectors selectively removed adult females..."

from: Webb, Jonathan K.; Brook, Barry W.; Shine, Richard. (2002a) Collectors endanger Australia's most threatened snake, the broad-headed snake Hoplocephalus bungaroides. Oryx. 36(2). 170-181.


So, getting past the whole horror of having the majority of the breeding females of an endangered species disappear from one of the last extant southern populations, you'd hope there was some serious captive breeding happening!

With so many snakes removed (the population was around 600 individuals), there should be alot of 2nd and 3rd generation captives getting about by now. Shine writes that broad-heads proved simple to breed (can quite find that paper right now! sorry).

Where are they then? What price do they go for? Is there a massive black market population?

Comments?

-Henry

 

[Jason]

i have seen them at the zoo and rep park great looking little snake also done a study on them at school but i only know about them, i don't know where they are but it is sad that so many where removed from the wild if you like an animal that much to remove all the females from the bush, you would think that you would like them enough to leave them and let them multiply

 

[salebrosus]

I don't think it has alot to do with illegal collecting as oppose to the massive bushfires that have wiped out the Sandstone regions around Sydney every year over the last ten years. Allowing people to have them and perhaps take part in breeding prgrams might help their populations become a bit more stable. These animals grow slowly and are obviously susceptible to the bushfires that have hit the Royal National Park, Ku ring gai Chase and other parks where there are sandstone ridges. They were also added to the Species lists for NSW last year.
if anyone has em and is looking to offload one, pm me.

Simone.

 

[Jason]

when i was reading up on them it was said to be the collecting of sand stone for industries such as landscaping that has led to a more rapid decsent in the numbers within the population and it was linked to be the main reason for the drop in numbers, having more of an effect then what bushfires are having, (can't remeber where i found this info so don't quote me on it, i may be wrong)

 

[Nephrurus]

At no point did i say collecting was solely to blame for the decline. Broad-heads use tree hollows as shelter in summer instead of sandstone, so are at risk from high intensity fires. As you said, bush rock collecting and general disturbance also adversely affects populations. Just pointing out that many of these snakes appear to be in private hands.
Most herpers get offered a wide array of illegal animals from time to time (chameleons, rattlesnakes,boas, PNG greens etc) but I've never heard of broad-heads going around.

-H

 

[Jason]

im not disagreeing with you at all, i was just sharing my nollage. im sure you are correct, as am i. I reckon bush fires would play a large role in the decline i was just saying that i red that it was because of the collection of sandstone for industry as well

 

[Greebo]

i was just sharing my nollage

:lol:

 

[Jason]

i might as well share what i know.....even if i dont know to much on the topic....lol

 

[Retic]

Re: RE: Broad Headed Snakes

Obviously not of the English language. :lol:

i was just sharing my nollage

:lol:

 

[basketcase]

captive breeding for these guys hasnt proved all that easy, alot of stillborns seem to occur. easy to maintain, yes but i wouldnt say easy to breed.

 

[Nephrurus]

mmm..... Some of Shines earlier papers report no problems breeding them. Maybe the people with them should ask him what he (or in what is the most likely case, the breeder) did!
I'd love to get some broadheads someday... any idea what price they go for when they are bred?
-Henry

 

[basketcase]

have heard of adults going for over 2k a pair. i'd think hatchies would go for at least 500 prolly more... thats if u can find them.

 

[flavirufus]

Personally, I think the effect of illegal collection of broadheads has been overestimated by academics. Its more likely that the habitat destruction (e.g. rock-turning) caused by irresponsible herpers in areas where academics were familiar with broadheads has led to the habitat being unsuitable.

Like other Hops, broadheads don't appear hard to keep in captivity, so I don't think there would have been huge numbers coming out of the wild into captivity and dying. Assuming good survival, there just aren't enough in captivity to account for large scale collection. Of course, I don't live in NSW and locals may know otherwise.

Melbourne Zoo seemed to have good success breeding broadheads when they started their programs and I've heard of other successes as well. I can imagine stillborns might be a problem in broadheads, as it is in Stephen's bandeds. However, broadheads (and paleheads) appear much more easily bred than Stephens. Attached is a pic of a second generation captive bred animal.

Matt

 

[Linus]

i was just sharing my nollage

haha sorry not laughing at you mate but that is gold.

That is one of the best ..oxymoron? type of things I have ever seen

Sorry for being offf topic.

 

[ErisKSC]

sometimes the ingrained paranoia of reptile keeping really gets to me, no one trusts anyone, NPWS don't want to help, It's a real shame.

Thats my knowledge

 

[Jason]

as i have said before i dont think bout what im writing or spelling just type away and what ever it spells or says is what you people get to read....lol. (i'll admit me english is by far my worst subject as i am sure you can all see)

 

[salebrosus]

I might add that my father was a collector in the 60's and he was really good at being able to find animals. He went out with other respectable people and even then all of these people said that the broadheads were not common around the Helensburgh and Waterfall sandstone areas. My father also said that the animals considered to be rare and desirable back when he was a kid were death adders. Broadheadeds' were not an animal people had alot of interest in.
i'm curious to know out of everybody here on this site, how many people do you know who actually has a Broadheaded snake? I only know one person.

Simone.

 

[NCHERPS]

Hi Simone,

Well apart from the fella at the last McArthur Herp meeting, I know one other that has them and has bred them this year.

Neil

 

[spooky]

I used to collect them for Eric Worrell back in the '60's!

 

[salebrosus]

Hi Neil,
That guy at the meeting is the only person i know with one. I hope to have one someday. They look great.

Simone.