Buying Live Mice or Rats from Pet Shops

[ingie]

Rats groom themselves constantly, to treat them chemically would put the rats health at rsik. Its all rubbish. Attempts to put people off buying live rodents to feed to their snakes. Same people probably have vegan dogs and vegan cats that they let out.

Cats groom themselves constantly also, and they are still treated with topical flea and worm products. I have worked in a few pet stores and I have never heard of any authority chasing up info about what customers do with their rodents. However, we did regularly treat rodents with flea and mite products so that they were mite free before going to their new homes. You would be mad to feed a reptile a rodent that had recently been treated for mites- I can't imagine ingesting permethrin, pyrethrin and who knows what else would be good for them. I doubt companies that make the products would have done tests on how reptiles react to the ingredients.

Pet shop rodents are usually expensive to deter kids from impulse buys, as well as live feeding. The only time they would be worthwhile for reptile people is when buying some new breeding animals.

 

[-Peter]

I dont disagree with what most of you are saying. I am merely pointing out that the rodents are not treated with special chemicals to stop your snake eating them. In fact the parasite treatments would probaly not be an issue.
The parasite treatments used on cats are to be ingested. They rely upon the grooming process to work.

 

[GeckoJosh]

Rats groom themselves constantly, to treat them chemically would put the rats health at rsik. Its all rubbish. Attempts to put people off buying live rodents to feed to their snakes. Same people probably have vegan dogs and vegan cats that they let out.

Actually many pet shops treat their rodents with mite and mange spray upon arrival.
I know this as I have done it myself.

 

[ingie]

They rely upon the oils of the skin to spread them over the mammal's body.. They do not work by being ingested, if that were the case you would simply give the animal a tablet, paste or liquid instead. Pet stores don't claim to put chemicals on rats specifically to make them unsuitable, it is just a precaution they take after treating them for mites. If a pet store treated rodents for mites and DIDN'T put up a sign informing customers who would potentially feed them to their reptiles, there would be outrage if a reptile became sick from it. How careful are people about the cleaning products and fumes they expose their animals to? Surely they need to know what treatments are on potential food items.

I don't know why people get so worked up about per stores refusing sales to people who want to live feed. I used to ask all my customers if the rodents were for food. Most of the people who said yes were tough guys who wanted a one off thrill from seeing their snake eat an adult live rodent. After explaining the possible dangers I was able to convince quite a few people that it wasn't a good idea. Those who came in wanting breeders always got what they wanted, and I even used to euthanise rodents for some customers so they could take them straight home to try fresh kill on fussy feeders. (Obviously not ones that had been mite treated).

 

[-Peter]

The treatment is absorbed into the skin and it is also ingested during preening. Whether it does anything when ingested is moot. The fact is it is ingested.
The claim here is that some pet stores have stated that they treat their rodents with chemicals so that they cannot be fed to snakes. That inge speaks for the entire pet store industry is reassuring.

 

[ingie]

Herpa Derp

Ah I misinterpreted what you were saying as 'treatments have to be ingested to work'.

Just because something is safe for a mammal to ingest though doesn't mean it is safe for reptiles to ingest.

The claim here is that some pet stores have stated that they treat their rodents with chemicals so that they cannot be fed to snakes.

*Let's eat Grandma.
*Let's eat, Grandma.

*These rodents have been chemically treated so they are not suitable to be fed to reptiles.
*These rodents have been chemically treated, so they are not suitable to be fed to reptiles.

 

[mysnakesau]

In our fresh food training at work, we were told that freezing does not kill bacteria. In stops it spreading, but all it does is send the bacteria into dormancy. As soon as it thaws the bacteria becomes active to continue where it left off. Heat over 60c is the only thing that kills bacteria. Freezing will kill mites and their eggs. When ppl ask me about the little black beetles in their bird seed, I tell them to put the seed into air tight container or bag and freeze it over night. Unfortunately we cannot do this do our snakes to cure them of mites, without freezing the snakes, too.

I have resorted to the pet shop recently because I have no other way of getting food for my snakes. Yes there are ppl here like Wokka, but an order that I can afford at any one time, I am sure would be too small for anyone to want to freight. This week I bought larger rats for my bigger snakes - 6 rats and 8 mice cost me $106. Last week I spent $60 on mice and weaner rats, and the same week before. Our only local supplier up here have been busy with other things so haven't been paying much attention to breeding the rodents. But my snakes are hungry so I bit the bullet and went to Pet Stock.

When I had my pet shop, everyone in town knew I have snakes. And I still had some ask me why were my frozen rodents cheaper to buy than the live ones. I told them straight out, live ones are pets, not snake food.

Actually many pet shops treat their rodents with mite and mange spray upon arrival.
I know this as I have done it myself.

Is that the one in the red/white bottle? Fantastic product that. I only ever had to spray them once, and you would see huge improvement within 24 hours. Even the bites on them, from the mites healed really fast once the rotten blood suckers were gone.

....
.... Once a girl asked if I was going to feed it ....."

Of course you're gonna feed it. Poor thing would die if you don't feed them.

 

[GeckoJosh]

Is that the one in the red/white bottle? Fantastic product that. I only ever had to spray them once, and you would see huge improvement within 24 hours. Even the bites on them, from the mites healed really fast once the rotten blood suckers were gone.

Yeah there is a couple of brands that pet stores sell, they all seem to have the same active ingredients.
I don't use sprays any more as I know of a few breeders losing their stock from a bad batch not that long ago.
What I do use and recommend is either ivomectin or selemectin (selecmectin is the active ingredient in kitten Revolution, ivomectin is what farms use to treat livestock for parasites, also known as cattle dip)

 

[ingie]

Does anyone know a safe withholding period for rodents treated with ivermectin?

 

[littlemay]

I work at a pet store and you can tell when people are planning buy live; they don't care about the look, sex, personality of the animal, they just say 'one please' and head up to the counter. You would be surprised how truthful people are when you call them up on it, a lot of them sometimes feel quite embarrassed as they attempt to deceive you by saying 'ooooh that one it's so cute' in the weirdest, most fake way... once i had a man come in who wanted to buy a rat, as i was talking to him he let slip 'i've had a bad day, i want to see something die'. Needless to say i threw him out of the shop.

 

[killimike]

On the original issue of the thread, it does sound very unlikely that "NPWS" would try to collect such info, and you be making a mistake in giving it.

But I'm not sure about how much of a difference petshops refusing to sell mice and rats for snake food really makes, and I don't think they do it for the right reasons usually. I think there are people out there like in littlemay's post, but I think it's far too easy to lump everyone into that category. How many of those people are unlicenced or exotic keepers anyway? Furthermore, I don't think that they are the primary reason for people's perceptions. I think people who like little cute mice will think those nasty slimey snakes are awful for eating mice, and whether you euthanise them humanely (By bashing their skulls in or suffocating them??) or feeding them live. And that snake keepers are just as nasty for making it happen.

It's also ironic to be judged by such a standard of knowledge and animal welfare as the local petshop

 

[littlemay]

Just to clarify, i wasn't suggesting all people are like this, just that you can often tell when the degenerates come in. I'll usually question people who come in wanting live mice as to why they actually want them, seeing as they're more expensive than the frozen mice we sell. If people have problem feeders and have explored other avenues to no avail, or are looking to start breeding for food, i have no issues. But i would never sell to someone who planned to just chuck a mouse in with their snake for the hell of it, it's cruel, unnecessary and dangerous and i will always tell the customer so, even i come off as a massive bitch because of it.