Cane Toads.

[junglepython2]

I hope all the people who condemn the use of dettol and freezing as cruel never use mice/rat poison.
As it is much more humane then many government sanctioned pest control methods such as 1080 laden baits.

 

[Chanzey]

I just capture them and put them in individual enclosures and let them live out their natural lives.

 

[mikey_mike]

I just capture them and put them in individual enclosures and let them live out their natural lives.

I find if these enclosures are placed within a freezer their natural life span is much more manageable.
Just be careful Chanzey - in Qld toads are a prohibited substance - if the drug squad is on this forum they might swing past.

 

[JasonL]

Yes things may adapt. However, as mentioned, it will take a boomin long time before they are immune or whatever. Plus by the time that happens, the cane toads would be evolving too so they are then immune and unable to be killed by the animals. Killing a couple may not help the population but it's not going to do much not killing them.

Larger toads eat smaller toads, they are highly cannibalistic.
There are only two things that effect cane toad populations... Food and suitable habitat.

 

[SteveNT]

Interesting. I might have to try that next summer. (Being very careful not to step on the toads when I get up to go to the bathroom in the middle of the night.)


What method(s) do they use to euthanase toads, Steve? I recently heard that the fridge then freezer method might not be as humane as believed, but I have not had a chance to look into it.

Gas them with Co2 as someone else pointed out- google Toadbusters or Frogwatch.

 

[SteveNT]

Steve,

I was at Lawn Hill in 2012, there was a good population of johnstoni there living with toads. I am not saying they are in the same density as what they were pre toad, but I am not sure either.

At risk of offence, 50, 000 years of data that cannot be ascertained to be fact. While I am sure there is information to be told and anecdotes to be utilized/interpreted I would very careful in over emphasizing the importance of the data. How can you be sure that changes to fire regimes or climate change has not caused the population shift?

I don't take the word of anyone as a sole basis for an argument, PHD holder, student, elder, naturalist or otherwise. I will listen and read and formulate my own opinion based from the data I receive and the knowledge I have acquired, as I am sure you would do the same.

To make a claim that a species is locally extinct is easy. To prove why its locally extinct is a whole different ball game.

In reply to the last statement I have been walking into several creeks in the Depot Ck sandstone escarpment south of Darwin for 30+ years. There has always been healthy populations of dwarf freshies. (Normal size freshies are bouncing back in most areas here.) The dwarfs rarely reach 2 meters so the impact of a large toad on a smaller body is presumably greater. These creeks are isolated- no roads or tracks and very rarely visited by humans. There are no weed species and no large ferals. The escarpment is bordered by cliffs and fire is a very irregular occurence (lightning strikes only). So it is hard to see chaged vegetation or fire as factors in this case.

Once the toads came through the freshies (and blue tongues, frillies, V panoptes and mertensii, king browns and the larger fish species) all disappeared over a 12 month period. Over time everything has come back (in limited numbers) but not the fish and not the dwarf freshies. My conclusion- the toads did it!

 

[TheChondroCharm]

ill ask my mum if we can freeze them, though it's not really my decision.

So what was the verdict. Just out of curiosity if you showed your mum this thread

 

[borntobnude]

haha..*****ly pear.

Opuntia stricta sp ,, Thanks :lol:

 

[Wombok]

Hahah, didn't show her, though I'm not sure if she does or doesn't want to kill him/her. It didn't even come tonight. I told her that we should, and I think she probably would if it comes back. Not sure though. And do you know the most humane way to kill them? If we do ever kill it. :I

 

[Lachie3112]

CO2 is the most humane way, although you could also try Carbon Monoxide poisoning (odorless fumes given off by heat beads/coals. Same effect as CO2 just one less oxygen atom in bond)
Freezing would be next. Stick it in the fridge first for a while and it should enter a sort of sleep. Move it to the freezer and keep it there for several hours. Google freezing toads for more information.
Hitting it with a blunt object is the easiest way, although it's debatable whether it is as humane as other methods. A quick, hard whack to the head should do it. Crushing it's skull and brain should result in almost instantaneous death, although it may still appear to be alive as muscles twitch and spasm.

Make sure to dispose of it carefully, as the poison glands can still trigger after death.

Bear in mind though that this shouldn't be taken as 100% fact, and only a basic guide.

 

[Wombok]

Okay, thanks.~

 

[Xanthine]

Carbon monoxide and carbon dioxide have drastically different effects in the body, not the same at all. Carbon dioxide displaces oxygen out of the lungs, depresses neural activity, and kills by a combination of neurological depression, and hypoxia. Carbon monoxide is required in a far lower concentration, and binds to haemoglobin irreversibly, preventing oxygen transport, and so kills with hypoxia. This is why carbon dioxide makes mice, rats and toads go to sleep before they die so long as the carbon dioxide is added slowly enough. Carbon monoxide really just suffocates.

 

[mikey_mike]

Carbon monoxide and carbon dioxide have drastically different effects in the body, not the same at all. Carbon dioxide displaces oxygen out of the lungs, depresses neural activity, and kills by a combination of neurological depression, and hypoxia. Carbon monoxide is required in a far lower concentration, and binds to haemoglobin irreversibly, preventing oxygen transport, and so kills with hypoxia. This is why carbon dioxide makes mice, rats and toads go to sleep before they die so long as the carbon dioxide is added slowly enough. Carbon monoxide really just suffocates.

Xanthine - I'm sure you're supposed to be studying - as am I. CO is the bomb for painless euthanasia - it just causes increased drowsiness - whereas CO2 causes increased respiratory drive & also causes increased fluid in the lungs - whenever I use CO2 to kill rodents there's a brief period of increases respiratory rate which to me looks distressing, but is thankfully quite quick.

If anyone can think of a way to produce CO without producing hot fumes - petrol engines, charcoal etc are no good - I would really like to know about it.

 

[Shotta]

i say make them do battle with each other battle toads lol get it..

 

[Lachie3112]

Carbon Monoxide is produced by incomplete burning of fuels, so if you collect the fumes while also limiting the oxygen to a burning coal (for example) you could funnel it into another air tight container which could allow it to cool. I don't think you can make CO any other way.

 

[Xanthine]

In mice at least, CO poisoning would cause an increase in respiratory rate as the sympathetic system would kick in, increasing RR, and at low enough blood oxygenation, the body would enter hypoxic drive to breath. If done slowly enough, CO2 poisoning should be painless, as should CO poisoning. I mostly made the point as there is a difference between CO2 poisoning and CO poisoning as they have different modes of actions, act at different concentrations, and CO2 can also depress neural activity.

 

[TrevorJ]

I see my post was removed and marked as "cruelty" but where is your proof? In my experience the method of dealing with cane toads I espoused in no way appears to cause them any distress. They don't go into a panic or writhe around in pain, They simply hop off perfectly normally and then just freeze in their tracks after 4 or 5 short hops. Compared to the stress of being chased, caught and frozen which is supposedly "humane" I'll stick with my method thanks.

 

[Stuart]

I see my post was removed and marked as "cruelty" but where is your proof? In my experience the method of dealing with cane toads I espoused in no way appears to cause them any distress. They don't go into a panic or writhe around in pain, They simply hop off perfectly normally and then just freeze in their tracks after 4 or 5 short hops. Compared to the stress of being chased, caught and frozen which is supposedly "humane" I'll stick with my method thanks.

http://www.environment.gov.au/biodi...cations/pubs/can001-euthanasia-cane-toads.doc

Note under heading, "Methods not considered acceptable for euthanasia of Cane toads"

Any more questions?

 

[TrevorJ]

I hope all the people who condemn the use of dettol and freezing as cruel never use mice/rat poison.
As it is much more humane then many government sanctioned pest control methods such as 1080 laden baits.

You are 100% spot on. The various "approved" poisons for pest control are a lot worse. My experience with that liquid which cannot be named is that they show no signs at all of distress, pain or panic but simply stop dead in their tracks a few feet from their original position.

 

[TrevorJ]

http://www.environment.gov.au/biodi...cations/pubs/can001-euthanasia-cane-toads.doc

Note under heading, "Methods not considered acceptable for euthanasia of Cane toads"

Any more questions?

Their experience is not my experience and makes me wonder about their test methodology. I have never seen a sprayed toad exhibit any of the behaviours e.g., toxin exuded, they list and certainly they are not still alive for 10 to 20 minutes. Compared to pinning them to a board and smashing their heads in with a hammer I think my idea of humane and theirs might be somewhat different.