charmeleon

[hornet]

just 4 fun i have advertised exotics on petlink to c if anyone of importance gets in contact with me bout them but no1 did, and shame on anyone who keeps exotics or wants to keep them, if the escape they can do so much damage to our native wildlife.....*gotta catch 'em all, pokemon*

 

[Moreliaman]

If thats what you do for fun, you need to get out more.

 

[euan]

ATTN: Moreliaman
Galapogos tortoises ARE in the UK, Your investigation missed a few people. A quick check on ISIS showed four at Chester zoo. Plus there are private people with them as well.
In the USA they are even commonly bred in the thousands (not all by the same breeder). They are not allowed to be SOLD across state borders in the USA due to the Endangered Spp Act, but never the less they are freely available. Ten years ago the wholesale price was down to $200USD ea for hatchlings. I am sure they are cheaper now. In Florida they are held by numerous people in small to large herds.
Euan

 

[Retic]

Thanks Euan, I was beginning to think I was going mad

 

[Moreliaman]

ATTN: Euan

Ive just phoned Douglas Sherriff (head of reptiles at Chester Zoo) and he said , please could you tell him where they are on the park grounds ? because to the best of his knowledge the zoo does not have any Galapogos Tortioses (Geochelone nigra) in stock or on it's records !!!

 

[Moreliaman]

AHHHH i see how you getting confused now...

Geochelone nigra ssp. galapagoensis <-- True Galapagogos Tortoise.....the rest are sub species ....not all of them live on the same island (you do know its more than 1 island ?!)

Geochelone nigra ssp. guntheri

Geochelone nigra ssp. vandenburghi

Geochelone nigra ssp. ephippium

Geochelone nigra ssp. microphyes

Geochelone nigra ssp. vicina

Geochelone nigra ssp. abingdoni

Geochelone nigra ssp. becki

Geochelone nigra ssp. porteri

Geochelone nigra ssp. chathamensis

Geochelone nigra ssp. darwini

Geochelone nigra ssp. hoodensis

 

[Moreliaman]

So euan must be a member already on here under a different name then !! ???

 

[euan]

ATTN: Moreliaman
As I mentioned a quick look on ISIS still shows four Galapagos tortoises at Chester. Feel free to check yourself www.isis.org. I do not know the accuracy but to the best of my knowledge it is verified every 12mths min. But birth death records are six monthly. It is a voluntary reporting system so it is up to the respondants to accurately submit reports. So if you are saying they are no longer there then it should be a recent occurrance. Or that Chester has not bothered to update the ISIS records.
Confused, me ??? You seem to be the one that is confused. At no stage in this whole thread were subspp mentioned. ALL subspp of G.nigra are COMMONLY called Galapagos tortoises. Though I have never been a fan of common names, I understand that the trend for amatuer herpotoculturists is to use common names. The supspecific satus of captive Galapagos tortoises is something generally not alluded to. The degree of hybridisation is of concern. Though there are a few private people in the USA as well as some zoos ( again you can check the zoo stock on ISIS) with known subspp. Thus to say that G.nigra galapagoensis is the true Galapagos tortoise is false, for a few reasons. A) Using your arguement, it would be the subspp G.nigra nigra. G.n.nigra is the spp all others are subspp B) as far as I am aware there is no subspp G.n.galapagoensis C) common names have been in use up until this period of time on this thread and common names are just that common.
A quick note on the taxonomy used by yourself, and subsequently myself. All my books are presently in the USA and Madagascar at present so I am unable to verify the taxonomy used. Obviously I could send off emails and make phone calls to verify things but do not feel that small points like this require me to burden myself with extra work. Feel free to check yourself, or others for that matter.
Do I know that the Galapogos Islands are more than one island: well considering I am with high probability one of the most widely travelled people on this forum, I am most definitely aware of the many islands there and of the various subspp there there. Though unfortunately it is one of the few areas in the world I have not made it to yet.
Regards
Euan

 

[Moreliaman]

Sorry mate but im not fussed what it says or claims on isis, ive just got the info from the "horses mouth", he is the head of reptiles at the zoo, im sure he'd know if he had them ! they are a bit big to miss! but obviously you'd know this being an expert, (where the hell are the smileys on this soddin thing?)

You'd best get there too then before it sinks under the sea.(if i could i'd put a winking smiley here!)

 

[euan]

You may like to inform Chester that their ISIS records are not up to date. ISIS records are extremely important to the zoo community. Though it would be interesting to know what happened to them. If you find out please share.
No chance of the islands sinking in my lifetime, global warming is still in debate, but all worse case estimates still allow me plently of time to get there )
When I wanted to go to Ecuador things did not pan out and now the guy who I was interested in doing something with there has disappeared.
Guess I will have to wait a while.
Euan

 

[Moreliaman]

Im not calling him now, its 00.55am !(he said "do you know what $%&^* time it is? when i phoned him eairler!) I will in the morning though and find out exactly what specie he does have there.

Guess you could go and look for him, he is youre friend!(smiley)

according to chester zoo's website they dont have any either! http://www.chesterzoo.org/animals.asp?Collection=46

 

[euan]

Yeah getting on'e head around time zones is a pain. I'm continuously working and living in different countries and sometimes forget when it's what time where

"Guess you could go and look for him, he is youre friend!(smiley)"

Not sure the meaning is he somebody I know ??? Quite possible as I am hopeless with names but pretty good with faces. It's been a while since I was about on the UK herp scence.
Oh yeah found the smiley just do it like you do on emails : followed by ) equals
Euan

 

[Moreliaman]

you said youre friend had gone missing ?

Perhaps you could tell Australia zoo they haven’t updated theirs either ! ;>)+ but then....i spose when it does perhaps both of those records will come off !

 

[euan]

It was figurative I have lost contact with him that's all.

 

[Moreliaman]

Damn....thats a shame!

and im giving up on the smileys, i prefer the old site for them.

 

[Moreliaman]

now im confused

Well......there’s a turn for the books, I phoned him this morning, (I know I keep saying "phoned" but I actually mean text message, and after a text with loads of "f" & "c" words in it for waking him up last night) he's now saying he thought I was referring to giant tortoises , and for reasons that only he himself knows…thought I was referring to Aldabra's, (which I can’t understand because he knows that I know he doesn’t have any of those …I hope everyone can understand that bit!?) But sure enough they are there & they do now have 4 captive bred ones from another zoo collection, they haven’t been here in the UK very long, infact they were only given them just this year and i cant believe the evil scottish bar steward didn’t tell me !! (I say given…the zoo made an “undisclosed donation”), He does say however that to the best of his knowledge they are now the only ones in the UK, he says he has never heard of them being offered for sale in the UK & he's also 99% sure they have never been bred in the UK in private collections (if they have then someone has kept it very quite and I doubt someone would keep such an important achievement like that under wraps for very long as im sure the resulting offspring would require CITES paperwork to be issued) also he's 100% sure they’ve never been bred in any UK zoo's.
I don’t think they wanted anyone to know yet..(Hence why they aren’t on the website)..But this is good news ...2006 and we now eventually (and officially) have them here.
Sorry Euan, you were right, although im still a tad confused as im sure he knew I was referring to nigra & didn't admit having any until I told him that someone had just shown me they were down as having 4 on isis !
Im glad he was woken now for making me look a right nana !

Euan, you said that there are private keepers with them ? how did you find this out ?
Although looking at the thread asking for the return of someones snakes its easy to see why people don’t advertise what they keep & its hard to know exactly what is and isn’t in the country.

I have emailed UNEP to ask if they have any records of movement into the UK, but to be honest I cant imagine they’d give out that kind of info to a private individual, I will ask Douglas (Although I’m having second thought’s on that now !..lol ) to contact them as I would have thought the question/query would carry more weight coming from a zoo, it would be nice to know if there are more than 4 now and if so how long have they been here !
(And ill text Douglas again during the late hours (just to be extra awkward) and suggest a visit to see these new additions and get some pics as compensation for being let’s say…. “economical with the truth”)

 

[Retic]

In my defence, I don't think I ever said they were bred in the UK only that I saw them at a show in the UK but as I said to you earlier Mark my wife thinks they were Aldabra Tortoises, seeing as she has a memory that works I have no reason to doubt her.

 

[Moreliaman]

I know that ash, but everyone I ask has said straight away that they've never heard of them being offered for sale either, but im wondering why you are defending yourself when this is just a conversation, not an argument......................isn’t it ? Or has APS still not grown up ?

I feel I should clarify this comment too:

I can’t believe the evil Scottish bar steward didn’t tell me !!

As you will all know people that work in zoo's are usually private keepers that have got jobs doing what they love, just as most on here would love to be able to do, so they still take great delight in bragging to each other about what they have in the zoo, what they are getting, etc etc and just like private keepers its great to brag if you’ve managed to get hold of something really nice or rare, great satisfaction was taken when Douglas was told the park had a Fiji banded, so Douglas not bragging about these tortoises Chester zoo had just obtained !! Strange and puzzled are words that spring to my mind

 

[Moreliaman]

Perhaps I also should point out that I am not employed at any zoo or park, im merely fortunate enough like some others on here to be able to do voluntary work when needed.

 

[Moreliaman]

No chance of the islands sinking in my lifetime, global warming is still in debate, but all worse case estimates still allow me plently of time to get there )

Oh btw, I wasn’t actually referring to global warming or climatic changes being the demise of the islands, I don’t think most of us will be here when that happens, and call me old fashioned but if it did, when water's gushing in around my ankles the last thing I’ll be thinking is...."gosh I must get to the Galapagos islands before they've gone too!"(winking smiley)
If you look into the history and how the islands were formed and what they are made from, you will see that unfortunately there is chance of that happening in your lifetime, infact it could happen tomorrow even if there was a big earth quake or the magma underneath decided to shift, parts of the island have already done so ,. So if I were you, I’d find your friend, and get there before it sinks under the sea ! (winking smiley)

Now i know you already know all of that euan, but others may not so i'll leave it there because it might interest them in knowing.(smiley)