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Ad, have passed on your "challenge" to Shane who has just rang me from the Cape where he is presently pig- hunting. After he laughed his backside off for a good five minutes, he asked me to let you know that as you do not have the time spent up the Cape with Umpala traditional owners, whose country is well South of Iron Range ,but still in GTP range of distribution he can assure you many specimans have incredible blue colourations.
Thus Bob Withey's comments you posted, which by the way I understand was only a segment of the original, is incorrect!

I am guessing from the tone of your posts, you are not interested in catching up next time you up this way.LOL
Regards Rina
 
That's alright Africa, I think you are pretty darn cool so I will fight the good fight for you also. Thank-you so much for the compliment too. :oops:
Regards Rina
 
Rina,

Ad is absolutley correct. The obee Greens pictured are of PNG lineage. They are definately not Australian Green Pythons.

It was mentioned that they have been tested and are shown to be Australian. Prove it. Show us the results. Anyone can sprout that they have test results to prove their Greens are Australian. Its good for business if you want to sell and make money. But to prove good faith, the results should be made public.

At the present moment David Wilson is studying Greens in Cape York. I have spoken to him many times, and he assures me EVERY green(100's) he has found and tagged had the same typical Aussie patterning. Some females have had small blue blotches on them(I think he said he had found 5 or so) but they still had the standard markings.

Aussie Greens and Southern PNG Greens are genectically similar, whereas northern PNG Greens are totally different. As the Aussie and Southern PNG are similar it is arguable in a court room that the difference is not big enough to proove 100%. Just like the OJ Simpson trial in the USA. A technicality. But there is still a difference.

Luckerly, Aussie Greens seem to always share the same patterning and it is easy to tell the difference by sight alone. It takes me about 2 seconds to spot the differences.

Comepare Obees to Greg Maxwells Chrondro book and you will see they match some PNG specimens. Compare them to Dave Barkers Python book(which are Australian) and you will see the difference.

Anyway, I will post a pic of an Australian specimen to compare. If still in doubt, send Obees pictures to David Wilson and ask his opinion.
 
Many people i have talked to say that URS greens were deemed aussie by npws, you heard anything about that.
Personally i would buy any green python if i knew for sure it wouldn't be taken after the amnesty, aussie or not they are my fav snake and the reason i got into reptiles when i was young.
 
So Bigguy how are your GTPs going?
I only saw one adult at your place a couple of years ago & believe you won't breed them again after your run in with NPWS.
Did you ever get those beautiful babies back?
 
Buggie,

No I will not be breeding them again. My boy is now to old, + the fact i now have no more females anyway. . Gows Aussie females are now the last chance that I know of for any chance of Aussies being bred again in captivity. Unless Queensland NPWS allows a few to be collected
 
No one,

Ultimates Greens were purchased from Buckley in Queensland. Buckley has been to court 5 different times over his adult breeding snakes and have been found by the courts to be legally owned.He proved to the courts his PNG snakes was legally given to him from Taronga zoo years previously.

This means that Ultimates Greens(which are not Australian) are legal and can not be confiscated at any time. These snakes can be proven to be legally imported into Australia. It also means that any bought from Ultimate are also legal, but please DO NOT mislead the public in saying they are True Australian Greens. They are legally held PNG Greens.

However, all the other PNG Greens that were laundered as Australian species in the amnesties, could at any time be confiscated by Customs under the new federal laws.
 
There are more Australian GTP's then that...but not in captivity, just zoo's.
 
mm interesting.
Out of curiosity does anyone know what the Irwins have on display?.GTP wise.Just wondering.
And i hope Mr Gow can get those little gems reproducing.
I am learning alot from this post though.Very intersting to hear everyones veiws.
 
Thats why i asked bigguy, it seemed a bit strange that npws would deem them aussie if they weren't, but legalised PNG greens sounds a bit more likely.
It does seem stupid that one persons exotic greens can be legal and anothers can't, it makes the the situation bloody hard. I'm in market for greens but it seems your buggered which ever way you go.
 
Surely the aussie reptile park would be able to get permission to collect a few adults to maintain a pure australian line in captivity, even if it is only for the purpose of zoo display initially?
 
hi everyone, sorry about the lenght of this post, but as there were a few shots fired while i was away i would like to take the oportunity to return some of my own.
first i would like to appologize to any person who may have felt i tried to discredit them i say it how it is and people always know where they stand,perhaps my biggest fault,but if i am wrong i take pride in stating the fact.like it or hate it ,it's just my opinion.i only open my mouth when i believe i'm right or i trust my source of info[someone you look up to ad provided the info in regards to diamond cross jungle lines that i refered to at another time].my grandfather once said,"Listen to everyone,learn from anybody but when its time to talk, be correct and prepared to back it up on all levels."this has molded my life.Hence the amount of posts by me on this site.call me what you will,but i prefer to sort diagreements out on the flat,usually over quickly but not an option here.
i do not wish to discredit you ad, you seem to have done a pretty good job of it yourself on this site and to be setting up some bigger fish to fry.to all the people who have contacted me and posted on this thread ,no i don't really take him serious either and be aware everyone that just because you have done something for decades doesn't mean you know everything, you can still learn from those who don't have the years behind them.never be afraid to put forward ideas or think what you have to say is silly,this is the first thing i say to my trainee keepers and after 1yr some are of more benefit to the animals and myself than some of my senior keepers.your motivation ad is totally to stir but you have taught me nothing.i know you have been waitng to have a crack at me because i pulled you into line on atr.so hear it goes.

i have to prove nothing to you ad or biguy about gtp locale and honestly would not take pleasure in you proving yourself wrong .if you thought we didn't check,research and double check with nwps before we handed over 30 grand then you are wrong again.they are deemed aussie with dna proof and the safest line in the country.people brought gtp's into qld on an international licence,very risky.If you bothered to glance at ultimates site you may learn something yourselves, and going with that if you intend quoting greg maxwells book on gtp's please do so to its full extent. As you would know it lists the recognised area forms for gtp's and one of thoses area forms is listed as The cape york ( Merauke) race. That being because it is nearly imposible to tell the difference via d.n.a at this stage and has been known to have been that way for some time. the write up on the cape york (merauke) race also states how similar there apearence is to the aru race in that it features lime green animals with white dorsal markings, and frequently with blue on the ventral and lateral areas.It also goes on to state many more very relevent points which sadly we dont have the room to attach to this post but on his site we think most of this information is there to be read by all, So even people without this leading book on the subject have the oportunity to browse the information. To try and pass judgment on a pic taken as a happy snap, of a yearling animal at the time, of a animal that goes through the most dramatic changes in both colour and pattern from hatchling to adult is ill conceived to say the least. So on that note ad you pay the fee to the sa museum for dna testing,send us the receipt and we will send them a slough.That way we will all know that the skin is being sent to the right place with the rights results being returned. Frankly i would have a little problem sending you the skin to pass on as its very much out of the trust range that you would fit into. We believe siblings of our animals have been tested by the same institution and were deemed to be exactly what they are stated as.personally i would put my money away towards one of my future legally deemed aussie gtp hatchlings.
We would like to take the oportunity to thank you guys on getting this topic running so hot, As im sure tim and donna from ultimate reptiles would as well, the spin off from this thread has been unbeleivable for us. Now alot more people know just how safe this line is compared to the others, with an amazing amount of people looking to be kept upto date on how this goes with the hopes of us starting a waiting list for offspring in the future.
i beleive in the amnesty because i love our fauna,so much so that if our gtp's were not aussie and on an international licence i would be the first to take them in as demand for them in zoos is high and this would ensure there survival.perhaps they could come to our zoo.rules are rules and i have a very good professional working relationship with npws,the fact is they are the safest line and they are that for a reason as stated.at the end of the day i don't have breeding experience with gtp's ad but you obviously have faith in the fact that i will,thankyou, but commercial gain was not really the motivation for getting them[who wouldn't want a gtp]
but it would be nice to get the 30 000 back.with all the info you read and the limitted advice in this country we have done bloody well to get them to this stage[many people suffered losses] legally they can be reproduced and that is the underlying factor.
i dont have to promote the rest of my animals ,they sell themselves all in 72 hrs this year.i sold less than half of what i bred,could of sold a 100 if i had them and enquiries are a almost daily,over 120.i may not breed jungles this year, but could produce around 100,so its not a financial thing for me.infact i refused several people this year because i didn't feel they were suitable to the species and helped them find what would be with other breeders.i can send you the e-mails ad.i treat new time herpers this way because of the many negative stories i've heard about the biguys dealings.
P.S..bigguy is it true you are 6foot7 and 150 kgs. Just a guess from your user name..


obee
 
i believe irwin's gtp's are of the same line as ours from buckley.


obee
 
Yep. Irwins are all Australia. They also have one that is pure blue...amazing.
 
Obee,

Now lets try to work this out.
1)Bob Buckley gets PNG Green legally from Tarongo Zoo.
2) He breeds his greens, raises babies and breeds from the young
3) Tim from Ultimate buys 6 from Buckley
4) Qld NPWS hit the roof he sold them, even though they gave him export permits to do so
5) Buckley Greens confiscated by Qld NPWS
6) After 5 court cases Buckley found inocent of all charges as PNG Green were legally imported by Taronga from the USA
7) Court orders return of all Buckleys animals
8) Steve Irwin refuses to release them, stating Oshea from fauna squad said he could keep them.
9) Tim from Ultimate raises his 6 from Buckley
10) Tim breeds his young
11) Obee pays $30,000 to Tim for 6
12) Obee now claims they are pure Australian, even though he bought from Tim who bred his from Buckley's who had to prove in a court of law that his Greens where legally imported PNG specimens he aquired from Taronga.
13) Under the new Federal Govt rules governing exotics, unless you can prove that the animal was legally imported, you are breaking the law and can be fined. Buckleys have been proven in a court of law to be legally imported, ego all progeny of his line are also legal. Just not Australian

Geez Obee, you convinced me. Of coarce you are the expert on Greens as you have kept them 17 months. As you said i dont know everything and I am wrong on this instance. Or could it be i have known Bob Buckley for 20 years and have shared breeding details with him over this time as we were both breeding Greens for that same period.

As for Maxwell book his description of the Cape York(Merauke0 race is based on the PNG type specimems held in the USA. In his revised edition Greg will be showing an Aussie Green as he now realises they are different in colour morphs.

Its also funny that these WORLD LEADING EXPERTS like Barker and Maxwell state when they see a Aussie Green that there is nothing like them in the USA, and yet when ad placed Obee's Green pic on a US site, all stated they recongnised his as PNG specimens

For the people reading this post, no one has to take my word for it. Just ring Tim at Ultimate and ask who he bought his breeders from. Than ring Bob Buckley and have him confirm his PNG breeder from Taronga. Then make up your own minds.
 
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