crocodile`s and mice

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I find the feed conversion rates between captive and wild crocs astounding. I have to wonder at the cause of this and whether any further research has been done.
In regards to the vegetative matter, one of the main feeding methods of freshies that I have observed it to sit in running water with their mouths open and snap at anything that enters their mouth. Obviously a lot of leaves, sticks and stems would be consumed this way.
In regards to the flaming of the OP, some things never change.

Have to agree with you Magpie, the conversions rates are unreal.... i may be blind, if so up me for it, but this data is it acrosss the board, for both sp?

To the OP this is the dribble you may have to wade through to get a sensible answer. I am amazed that the usual offenders havent started screaming "troll" with the typical limited intellect, you have toughed it out this far (congrats, seen many disappear from less) there are some good responses from some knowledgeable non egotistical people.
Just out of curiosity why mice ( more expensive per kg than chicken)? I asked a friend if he fed his crocs mice and his reply was that mice would be a less likely food source for freshies than fish, crustations and small water birds. He also mentioned that yes crocs (both sp) are known to eat vegetation. Good luck.

unforunatley ya lways get dribble now days :p and being slammed makes ya stronger... christ knows i have been flamed to many times :S alot of people will go mice as they see it as a varied diet, offering the whole animal and providing nutrition from hair etc.
 
I mentioned the date these studies were conducted in my second post, so it is understandable to look at this study quite objectively.

Personally I think stress is a major contributor, stress and adrenaline has such a profound effect on crocs that many physiological parameters are influenced by it. My professor was C.E. Franklin who has demonstrated the adrenergic effect on crocodilian lingual salt glands and cardiac function. Whilst I have no primary literature to support such hypothesis I would initially suspect stress would play a primary role in the difference. I will try and obtain a copy of the paper to see what is mentioned in the discussion in regards to this matter.

Ok so after reading a few articles I have taken out snippets of relevant findings, but essentially the difference is not known and I can't find any remotely relevant recent publishing on the matter. Some of the possible suggestions are stress, frequent filling of the stomach, fat diet in captivity, metabolic scaling and possible clutch variation.

Direct quote (without intext references) from the discussion in Webb (1991):
"The reason food conversion rates in the wild are much higher than those reported in captivity are unknown. Conditions in captivity could be far more stressful than is generally recognized, although corticosterone levels in captive A. mississippiensis, maintained at low densities, suggest this is not the case. In the wild, C. porosus do not appear to have the opportunity to fill their stomachs each time they feed, which usually occurs in captivity. This raises the possibility that the physiological mechanisms associated with the digestion and assimilation of food may not function as efficiently when the stomach is repeatedly filled to capacity. Captive hatchling C. porosus fed daily have food conversion rates (28%) that were appreciably lower than those fed every two days (40%)."
He also mentioned the above average abundance of rats in the study site during the study which were recorded in the stomach contents of some animals.
The wild study sample attains an average 730 mm TL and 870g in one year, whereas the average farm raised individual attained 750 mm TL and 1360g in one year. So captive stock are much heavier per unit length.

From Garnett and Murray (1986):
Investigating the parameters affecting the growth of estuarine crocodile. Individuals from some clutches responded positively to stress, while those from other clutches responded negatively. It was concluded that clutch variations explained the majority of the variation in all variables in this study, it was undetermined whether the clutch-related factors were genetic or environmental.

From Garnett (1988):
Up to 92% of protein in captive estuarine crocodiles was digested but protein was adversely affected by high levels of dietary fat.
 
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I have a hatchy childreni and I've put a couple of adult rats in with it but for some reason it hasn't eaten them can any one help please. Should I just force feed it the rats and do I need to kill the rats before I try and force feed them thanks inadvance
why so harsh? thats just down right nasty, im sure youve asked questions before, so you dont have to be such a b*&$# about it? alrighty? :)
 
maybe the childish people on this thread should take a gander at "a plea to all forum users" thread, then they might learn something :)
 
I mentioned the date these studies were conducted in my second post, so it is understandable to look at this study quite objectively.

Personally I think stress is a major contributor, stress and adrenaline has such a profound effect on crocs that many physiological parameters are influenced by it. My professor was C.E. Franklin who has demonstrated the adrenergic effect on crocodilian lingual salt glands and cardiac function. Whilst I have no primary literature to support such hypothesis I would initially suspect stress would play a primary role in the difference. I will try and obtain a copy of the paper to see what is mentioned in the discussion in regards to this matter.

Ok so after reading a few articles I have taken out snippets of relevant findings, but essentially the difference is not known and I can't find any remotely relevant recent publishing on the matter. Some of the possible suggestions are stress, frequent filling of the stomach, fat diet in captivity, metabolic scaling and possible clutch variation.

Direct quote (without intext references) from the discussion in Webb (1991):
"The reason food conversion rates in the wild are much higher than those reported in captivity are unknown. Conditions in captivity could be far more stressful than is generally recognized, although corticosterone levels in captive A. mississippiensis, maintained at low densities, suggest this is not the case. In the wild, C. porosus do not appear to have the opportunity to fill their stomachs each time they feed, which usually occurs in captivity. This raises the possibility that the physiological mechanisms associated with the digestion and assimilation of food may not function as efficiently when the stomach is repeatedly filled to capacity. Captive hatchling C. porosus fed daily have food conversion rates (28%) that were appreciably lower than those fed every two days (40%)."
He also mentioned the above average abundance of rats in the study site during the study which were recorded in the stomach contents of some animals.
The wild study sample attains an average 730 mm TL and 870g in one year, whereas the average farm raised individual attained 750 mm TL and 1360g in one year. So captive stock are much heavier per unit length.

From Garnett and Murray (1986):
Investigating the parameters affecting the growth of estuarine crocodile. Individuals from some clutches responded positively to stress, while those from other clutches responded negatively. It was concluded that clutch variations explained the majority of the variation in all variables in this study, it was undetermined whether the clutch-related factors were genetic or environmental.

From Garnett (1988):
Up to 92% of protein in captive estuarine crocodiles was digested but protein was adversely affected by high levels of dietary fat.

Thanks for the extra info Dan
 
I see a lot of "He shouldn't own it" "he should have researched it before buying" "How can you buy an animal without knowing anything about it". Well, He shouldn't own it, but he does, yes he should have researched it, but he didn't. And he bought the animal without knowing anything about it. These are the facts. Another fact is that every comment stating this information is excessively pointless. Should of could of would of. HE DIDN'T so now we HELP the idiot learn about his unfortunate animal before it dies.

Do we understand kids? (On a side note I cannot help in any way shape or form as I know nothing about freshies, so my post is just as irrelevant as all of yours)

When did APS become so Bitchy? Bloody keyboard warriors, unhappy with their own failed lives so they hit the internet up to flame every one. Most threads I visit now have some moron flaming away. I'll come round and douce you with a fire extinguisher next time, noobs.
 
i would say that it would eat it and if it's not big enough it will probably rip it to smaller pieces
 
When did APS become so Bitchy? Bloody keyboard warriors, unhappy with their own failed lives so they hit the internet up to flame every one. Most threads I visit now have some moron flaming away. I'll come round and douce you with a fire extinguisher next time, noobs.

You're going to use a fire extinguisher on these keyboard warriors? I wonder which one you are, the pot, or the kettle?
 
You're going to use a fire extinguisher on these keyboard warriors? I wonder which one you are, the pot, or the kettle?

Neither, I'm Human. The extinguisher should help the flames die down.
 
thiaminase

Hi I too have a crocodile in QLD but mine is saltwater, as i have mine on an exchange program with the crocodile farm. I find the farm is a great place to obtain all the husbandry information you require. they are very happy to help. and i have found them invaluable. i feed mine chicken necks and kangaroo meat(no preservatives) you can private message me if i can help you more.

any takers?

Thiaminase
I think you will find this interesting as i did, a topic i had not done much reaserch
on.
 
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