Culling off weak reptiles?

[mrs_davo]

I don't know what has been unleashed here, but remember ONE THING we breed these animals in captivity away from nature & that is why there is such a high survival rate. IF it were not for the breeder controling his/her breeding efforts & stock than these young would not even exist. As I said earlier in the wild or NATURE these would have been culled naturally by preditors.

I certianly am not a sadist, but real recognition has to be given to breeders all over here. If we kept stuff that was deformed, due to someones comfort, What sort of pet trade would we have now.
FOR SALE snake with no bottom jaw, but eats ok when shoved in his mouth. FOR SALE turtle with two heads, ok to feed but does not know which way to turn. HA HA

 

[Wookie]

:shock: fusion knows more then you lot put together.

How do you know that without knowing who anybody is? I see flaws in your logic..... Just because I don't agree with the almighty "fusion", does not at all mean I'm not as smart. I'm confident in my intellectual capacity.

 

[junglepython2]

I think it is likely that faults and deformities occur more often in animals of captive origin because we, the keepers, interupt the natural selection which occur in the wild. In the wild deformed animals are "culled" naturally but in captivity we save everything. At what point do you draw the line? No-one want bitey snakes so do they get the thumbs down for bad temperament. A previous post mentioned culling for failing to feed on rodents. A lot of keepers don't want to cull but are happy to pass on the problem to others for free. Does passing on animals with problems only matter if money changes hands? If they are free it is alright? Breeders need to make the hard decisions rather than just passing the problem on down the line and take responsibility for there charges!

Well said. Euthanising is a much better option then passing off problem animals.

 

[Flaviruthless]

The problem is that even if you do pass on a problem animal to someone who says they aren't interested in breeding, later down the track they may be. I have not bred any animals (other than fish) as of yet but when I do I will assume all responsibility for them and I know that if I passed on an animal with deformities and knew it had been bred I would feel terrible.

Regardless of what is said here, keepers will do as they wish in their own homes. If you choose to cull, I think you would know what you are doing; killing any animal is not a simple choice. If you choose not to cull I ask you how many times you will continue to breed your animals and how you intend to keep them and feed them for the entirety of their lives.

 

[xxMelissaxx]

I feel more comfortable killing a reptile with problems than a completely healthy rat.

^ Exactly my thoughts on the matter.

In order to debate this logically, people need to be objective - many are failing at this throughout the thread because they cannot see past their love for reptiles.

 

[Den from Den Pythons]

Hmmm, just read an entire thread, first time in months! Good topic, good read and good explanations to opinions given.

 

[pythons73]

Very interesting topic indeed...As for problem feeders as such..I got a 12month old Green that had to be forced fed,the breeder couldnt get it eating,(got 100s feeding previuosly)...The first night i brought it home i was feeding 1 of my snakes in the quaranteen room,the green must of smelled the quail,long story short it ate the quail head,a second as this green was tiny..5days later i did the same,however i rubbed the quail head onto a pinkie,ate 2 that night...Now 13months on this green in Q hasnt looked backed,eats everytime...Some difficult feeders just need a different enviroment to get them going,works for some...At what point can you say there a difficult feeder that needs forced fed,and i havent the time,so euth is best.....

 

[wokka]

Very interesting topic indeed...As for problem feeders as such..I got a 12month old Green that had to be forced fed,the breeder couldnt get it eating,(got 100s feeding previuosly)...The first night i brought it home i was feeding 1 of my snakes in the quaranteen room,the green must of smelled the quail,long story short it ate the quail head,a second as this green was tiny..5days later i did the same,however i rubbed the quail head onto a pinkie,ate 2 that night...Now 13months on this green in Q hasnt looked backed,eats everytime...Some difficult feeders just need a different enviroment to get them going,works for some...At what point can you say there a difficult feeder that needs forced fed,and i havent the time,so euth is best.....

I have heard similar stories of getting animals feeding with skinks. The hobby in Australia is now going mainstream which means that keepers are not necessarily knowledgeable enthusiast but rather pet owners who know the basics.I guess aps represents a very small percentage of reptile keepers and , dare i say, the more knowledgeable ones. Most pet keepers are drawn to reptiles because of there novelty and simplicity in care. They dont want to have to get freshly killed head of quail or pulsing lizards tails to feed their pet. We should be breeding the mainstream animals which are easy to care for not the finicky animals on the fringes.
I wonder when I will get my next enquiry from someone wanting to keep a Thorny Devil?

 

[FusionMorelia]

very nice thread, im a complete newbie to this having acquired my 1st snake this year,
this is an area i didnt even think of when looking at breeding/breeders and after reading every response i will just say this,
(just an opinion and i could be WAY off here)
You can not have a bleeding heart for deformed or super weak animals, people who breed reptiles
are breeding wildlife animals this isnt a dog or cat or human its a reptile that lets face it isnt your regular pet
we are replicating a natural environment at all times and a natural environment has a selection process to filter the gene pool
risking the gene pool by keeping these animals because you think its cruel to humanly cull them is dangerous in the long run,
i highly doubt any other animal breeders would keep/sell an animal with 3 legs and a warped jaw etc etc.

could some of the way more experienced breeders post some pics of the deformations/week animals so newer keepers and people who dont breed can SEE just how bad were talking here in regards to deformations and such n such?

 

[kupper]

I think as keepers it is a conflicting issue between duty of care and the responsibility to the hobby

Both parts dictate that we should nurture and
care for anything in our collections be it great and small BUT the second half requires you to play god so to speak , culling those that are genetically faltered , birth defected or otherwise NQR

I for one have no problems in euthanizing those animals that need to be regardless of the pet potential

If you wouldn't keep the animal yourself why would you want to pass it over to someone else ?

One thing that may not have been covered is the potential bad stigma that may be attched to your line if your NQR animals are constantly given away

 

[smeejason]

Hear hear Kristy! It all boils down to who wants to play god really.

I would much rather play the easter bunny as i find it a much more realistic fairy tale.....
Is funny that a lot of people want their reptiles kept so they live lives as close to natural but, when it comes to doing what nature dictates and that is killing the weak, you freak out and pull the old chestnut
"you must only be in it for the money"

 

[FAY]

I have not had to cull as yet, but would if needed. I have had some weak animals born but have passed on their own.
I also had a diamond hatchie that I assist fed for 14 months!! Then one day it's whole attitude changed,smashed it's food and never looked back....

 

[JasonL]

It all boils down to who wants to play god really.

I guess that depends if you are religious or not.
Personally I have no problem in killing something, where do "you" (to all members) draw the line? Rare animals? Furry cute mammals? Pets? Reptiles? Fish? Insects? Humans? there is a line there somewhere, it's just people have different opinions on where it should be.

 

[CarpetPythons.com.au]

I wonder who owns the rule book that says we can't cull weak and fussy snakes? Can snakes afford to be fussy in the wild?

 

[FusionMorelia]

I wonder who owns the rule book that says we can't cull weak and fussy snakes? Can snakes afford to be fussy in the wild?

+1 its about natural selection,
to give animals as close to a natural environment means culling the odd animal or 2 its harsh but a reality to protect the gene pool.

 

[JasonL]

I wonder who owns the rule book that says we can't cull weak and fussy snakes? Can snakes afford to be fussy in the wild?

Term the word "fussy feeder" for me, a hatchy antaresia (or any other snake) that refuses rodents and will eat skinks readily isn't fussy imo, nor is a snake that doesn't really adapt to a captive environment and won't eat as such. At the end of the day we need to decide why we keep reptiles for? for money? education? or for your enjoyment?... we are certainly doing the individual animal no favours by keeping it, and the species no favours by breeding them... but if we do decide to keep and breed them then we have to have a line drawn as to when it's time and reason to kill them, such is life.

 

[nagini-baby]

is there a way to cull humanely without smashing their heads in?? pm me pls. im truly interested

 

[waruikazi]

Il remember that if i ever need to use it, large nail and hammer would work and be less messy.

Not nail, just the hammer.

 

[giggle]

I guess that depends if you are religious or not.
Personally I have no problem in killing something, where do "you" (to all members) draw the line? Rare animals? Furry cute mammals? Pets? Reptiles? Fish? Insects? Humans? there is a line there somewhere, it's just people have different opinions on where it should be.

You are completely correct here But lines don't even come into it in some peoples minds. I don't debate where people draw the line, this is their own personal preference and what they feel they can live with in the end. To me, where the line is drawn, is not open for debate. That is a very personal area.

However... some say rehabilitate and then give away or sell or otherwise move on. Uhuh... no way. Passing off responsibility, allowing a potential problem to be perpetuated is completely unethical no matter how good your intentions are. If those that dont agree with culling don't want to cull, they need to be responsible for the animals they have produced for the entirety of that animals life. If they cant hack it, they shouldn't breed.

 

[spongebob]

You are completely correct here But lines don't even come into it in some peoples minds. I don't debate where people draw the line, this is their own personal preference and what they feel they can live with in the end. To me, where the line is drawn, is not open for debate. That is a very personal area.

However... some say rehabilitate and then give away or sell or otherwise move on. Uhuh... no way. Passing off responsibility, allowing a potential problem to be perpetuated is completely unethical no matter how good your intentions are. If those that dont agree with culling don't want to cull, they need to be responsible for the animals they have produced for the entirety of that animals life. If they cant hack it, they shouldn't breed.

+1

Details of how to cull can be found here:

http://www.aussiepythons.com/forum/general-discussion-42/humane-methods-euthanusing-reptiles-143531/