Dead Tree Snake/CTS/ Dendrelaphis Punctulata

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Naga_Kanya

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I just checked in on the light of my life, my beautiful little gold Tree Snake, and found him in his very last moments. His mouth was agape and he was completely limp. This immediately suggested overheating or choking to me, so I put him in a container of water at 26 degrees to cool him down very slowly, and watched him for any response. Nothing, just limp with his mouth gaping, no visible breathing at all. I had a look down his little windpipe with a torch, and felt gently along his neck/body, and couldn't find any signs of blockage. While this was happening my partner grabbed a thermometer to gauge the temp in his enclosure (in case of thermostat failure), but his enclosure was the upper end of his comfort level at 30 degrees; it's been a warm-ish day so this is a fairly normal fluctuation. His skin seemed to have a poor pinch response and looked dehydrated - but he was lying right next to his full water dish which had been refilled yesterday with clean, fresh water. He started going into rigor not long after.

He was fine yesterday - he was hunting through his water looking for fish, and I was admiring him. He looked perky and completely normal. He was due to be fed (fed 4 days previously, with fish from my usual supplier, which is also a reptile place so they know not to sell treated ones). He was a *very* difficult feeder when I got him, but patience had got him to the point where I could tip a fish into his bowl and he'd come out and pick it up before the net was even out of the tank. He had a diet of mostly platys (I wanted to feed him trout, but hadn't managed to get a good set-up to keep fingerlings yet), and was in good condition - not fat, not thin. His last week of feeding was completely normal, as the last few months have been.

He had a temperature range of 26-32 degrees in his tank, two hides in the warm and cool halves respectively, lots of stuff to climb on, and an x-large Exo Terra bowl for his water that he could completely immerse himself in if he bothered. I have had him for just over a year, and he was a wild-caught NT specimen; a young male, about 3yo at time of death.

He looks as though he might possibly have had a slight blockage towards his tail end - nothing like the photos I've seen of serious impaction/constipation, but definitely something there, for about 3cm. Gentle manipulation saw it move reasonably easily, so it wasn't a hard lump. His substrate was Breeder's Choice cat litter; I've never once seen him swallow any as he generally ate his fish where he caught them in the bowl, or he'd carry his prize to his big plastic fern for privacy and eat it up there.

I remember reading that this species is prone to sudden unexplained deaths, but if any of the more experienced keepers on the forum could shed some light, I'd be grateful. I loved this little fellow so, so much, and would very much like to continue keeping them, and I want to know if I did anything at all to cause his death, so I don't do it next time. I'm absolutely heartbroken.

I'm also considering getting a necropsy, but I have no idea where to send him, or how much it will cost. Can anyone recommend somewhere in Melbourne area (I'm in the Dandenongs area, but will travel if need be) to get this done? Thanks in advance for anything you can offer.
 
So sorry for loss.
How heartbreaking for you.
 
Very sorry to hear about your loss. I two have golds, and would hate to have the same experiance. (Although I have been through this similiar thing with a pair of BHPs before)

If your going to get a necropsy, put into the fridge dont freeze.

Peter Cameron ( i think thats his name) use to be at Altona, but I think he's moved. try some of these number that got sent to me in the past.

these are a few vets that work with reptiles in Melbourne: Surrey Hills -9836 2708
Altona-9391 5837, Warranwood-9879 0900, Frankston-9789 3444


All the best, and sorry again
 
Yer Jason, I'm the same with fish. Always purge them for at least a week in my own water before feeding off. I have been told before however that the chemical doesnt last long at all in their system once you change water. Its mainly put into the bags from the wholesaler to reduce deaths when deliverring the fish to the shops?
 
I'm sorry to hear about your loss. Whilst I have no direct experience with these snakes, it sounds like you have done your research and know your animal.

I've heard it said that wild caught specimens don't take to captivity and also, sometimes its just time for them to go.

Its good you want to keep going with this species. Don't let this hold you back
 
Thanks Bowdnboy. He's in the fridge. Surry Hills is nice and close - I've been to Warranwood, and while this isn't the time to be slanging off anyone, let's just say I wouldn't go there again, or recommend them to anyone. I've heard really good things about Peter Cameron, though, and I'll try tracking him down.

Thanks once again.
 
Hope you get an answer, it's frustrating to see a snake eating one day and dead the next.... getting a correct answer can be hard, esp with a WC animal that has a highly varied parasite load that may provide a quick but incorrect answer....
 
Yer Jason, I'm the same with fish. Always purge them for at least a week in my own water before feeding off. I have been told before however that the chemical doesnt last long at all in their system once you change water. Its mainly put into the bags from the wholesaler to reduce deaths when deliverring the fish to the shops?

Generally I agree, but my supplier's a reptile shop as well as an aquarium, and they give these exact same fish to their own stock with no hassles. I have a nano-type tank because I buy them 10 at a time, and so the last ones fed have generally been in my well-kept tank for several days anyway. The second-last lot I got, I got from a local aquarium/reptile shop (since I couldn't get into the city for the usual supplier), and I did ask - they'd been in the shop for nearly 2 weeks, and she hadn't treated them since (I've been paranoid about getting my fish from anywhere but the place I got my snake from - this was the first lot from there in over a year).

In an ideal world I'd have loved to get him on Rainbow Trout (following a post from either NicG or Dottyback - sorry, can't remember), but my early experiments in trout-keeping haven't been successful and I need a large bathtub with good water filtration/movement - in the cold bit under the house, which I hadn't got yet.

I never fed him goldfish, since I'd heard about the Thiaminase issues. I'm not sure if there have been any feeding issues with platys - that's what he was on when I got him, and what was recommended for him by the seller. If they'd got fresh stock of platys and they had been treated by the wholesaler with something toxic, how long would it take to kill my snake, and how suddenly would he go? Could this be it? Once I got the platys I fed them on Rainbow Trout mix from the trout farm, since that's what the trout fingerlings were fed on and that was a recommended diet.
 
So sad, sorry to hear of your loss :/ I hope you find the answers your after.
 
I'm sorry to hear about your loss. Whilst I have no direct experience with these snakes, it sounds like you have done your research and know your animal.

I've heard it said that wild caught specimens don't take to captivity and also, sometimes its just time for them to go.

Its good you want to keep going with this species. Don't let this hold you back

Thank you. That's a lovely thing to say. I love these snakes ever so much - I saw my first one about 9 years ago (and it was $1200 - well out of my price range at that time), and the next one I saw for sale was the one I bought. They're my 'holy grail' snakes. In my idea world I'd love a gold pair and a blue pair, but I will steer well clear of WC ones from now on I think, and keep to captive-bred snakes from people who've had some success with them.

So sad, sorry to hear of your loss :/ I hope you find the answers your after.

Thanks Smithers. Much appreciated.
 
have u got any of the fish left ? if yes then maybe it could be tested to see what toxins it has in its body ?
 
have u got any of the fish left ? if yes then maybe it could be tested to see what toxins it has in its body ?

That's a really good idea, but sadly I don't. I was just on the way out to get him some more, and checked in on him, and that's when I found him dying.:(
 
aww thats horrible to hear- I love our Golden i too would be devastated. Try not to let it eat you up too much; but if you must know what the cause was, be prepared tobe given a big list of "possible" causes. As someone above said; with Trees being from predominantly wild caught stock there are a myriad of possibilities. My first guess though would have been the fish. With acquariums they generally garner their stock from a variety of sources, all it takes is a supplier with a couple of sick fish medicating their lot with good intentions, and suddenly the domino effect is immeasurable. It may be worth going back to the fish supplier and asking one of the younger staff if there have been any issues with snakes who have fed from the same stock.

Hope you're feeling better soon.
 
My male did something similar - I heard movement in the enclosure and he was thrashing around on the floor of the enclosure with his mouth wide open. He died within 10 minutes. Female in the same enclosure was completely unaffected.
Male was post-mortemed (is that even a word?) at deception bay vets, where there are a couple of very knowledgeable reptile vets, and I took the female in too. All they found were slight trauma to his jaw and head (probably caused by thrashing around). Tox screen came back completely clear, heart and digestive system seemed clear (hadn't eaten for three days), and he was in perfect condition, apart from a slight case of being dead. Female was also cleared, although I gave her away shortly after, making sure to inform the new buyer. She's still alive 2 years later and still breeding. Not for me though, I stopped breeding colubrids after this. This and dumb sellers...argh...
So, in short, probably not helpful. Sorry.

Also..JasonL, your sig is missing an 'e'.
 
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Oh I am so sorry to hear this :(
I too am soon to keep CTS but they can be so hard to come by. I can absolutely understand your love for them... I can't wait to own my own.

I intend to breed my own fish, I trust no one. :/
 
Sorry to hear about your loss.. Did you take it to a vet? as bad as it may seem you could disect it yourself if your up to it, any large pellet type substrate could be ingested.
 
Sorry to hear about the death of your prized pet. I believe i sold you the snake so its sad to hear. Peter Cameron is now at Emerald Vet Clinic - 03 5968 6600 - pretty close to you. Internal parasites could also be involved as they can be in high numbers especially in WC animals. I have found Tree snakes to have high parasite loads and i treat them as soon as they come in. Some parasites are almost impossible/difficult to treat as i have found out with these guys in the past. The accompanying pics show worms/flukes from the lungs of a wild caught GTS.
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