DECC minimum enclosure size discussion.

[asis]

So would these new requirements rule out the use of Slitherin Racks?

Are they also talking minimums for geckoes?

 

[Oldbeard]

It looks like the DECC are trying to push NSW out of reptile keeping!

it wont stop anyone from keeping reptiles...it will just force everybody underground...which will be worse for NPWS as they will lose money in licencing/ permits etc.....:cry::cry:
It will send the reptile industry ten steps backwards...instead of encouraging it to grow, as it has over the past ten years...
They should stick to what they know best...maintaining the National Parks, go back to toilet cleaning and collecting over priced fees for entry and camping, and leave the reptile husbandry to educated reptile keepers who know whats best for them.
IMO it is just some knob trying to get a feather in his cap, to say he wrote the laws and what a great job he did of putting it over all the reptile enthusiasts of NSW:evil::evil::evil:

 

[Jay]

Hmmmm a great NSW reptile week this is.
I can keep woma's on a class 1 now, but soon may not have the room for them and have to sell half of my current snakes. Lovely -_-

 

[Oldbeard]

There will be no compensation for the cost of any enclosures that need to be scrapped because of any new regs.

Some have made comments re breeders.What needs to be remembered is if breeding animals are not healthy and happy then they will NOT breed.

.

Yes and many breeders will agree that the enclosure sizes they are using are perfect for healthy happy breeding.I have had all my snakes in tub systems for the last 3 years and all are healthy and breeding well.
I have 12 rack systems and the heating is perfect for snakes , the cleaning is much more hygenic then what I was doing in Melamine enclosures. If I am forced to have bigger enclosures, I will have to sell two thirds my adults to fit in the same room.
Even if I had spare room to spread them all out into huge enclosures, I wouldnt have the time to keep them as hygenic as they are now and would still have to downsize.

This must be a g-up, there is no way in this day and age that a department could have the power to change something so significant, when they have not a clue what they are doing.

 

[Ramsayi]

Yes and many breeders will agree that the enclosure sizes they are using are perfect for healthy happy breeding.I have had all my snakes in tub systems for the last 3 years and all are healthy and breeding well.
I have 12 rack systems and the heating is perfect for snakes , the cleaning is much more hygenic then what I was doing in Melamine enclosures. If I am forced to have bigger enclosures, I will have to sell two thirds my adults to fit in the same room.
Even if I had spare room to spread them all out into huge enclosures, I wouldnt have the time to keep them as hygenic as they are now and would still have to downsize.

This must be a g-up, there is no way in this day and age that a department could have the power to change something so significant, when they have not a clue what they are doing.

Am sorry to say that this situation is NO g-up.For the life of me I cannot understand how they came up with the enclosure sizes in their current proposal.Ironically even zoos and parks etc will not comply.

We keep carpets singly in 1200x800x600mm enclosures yet these will fall well short of what they are proposing.Rest assured that if this goes ahead then the DECC will have one hell of a fight in front of them.

 

[longte]

Laws like this are only enforced to protect mistreated animals
We have all seen or heard of large snakes in small enclosures or click clacks etc

It is about time private keepers had to assume some responsibility for their pets
If the guidelines follow the same guidelines used for commercial operators it is roughly as follows
2metre snake enclosure minimum 1000mm x 500mm x 2000mm tall [if aboreal] or 2000mm long for olives waters etc
If you check the website I think the dimensions for commercial operators will be there somewhere

Yes, I totally agree that in some cases it is overkill, but I use Qlds exhibitors code for my snakes; even though I do not exhibit; and they seem quite happy with their habitats

If this stops some reptiles from having terrible conditions it will be well worth it

 

[girdheinz]

What you outline is about half the size of the proposed caging requirements for an olive python.

Gird

 

[girdheinz]

If the guidelines follow the same guidelines used for commercial operators it is roughly as follows
2metre snake enclosure minimum 1000mm x 500mm x 2000mm tall [if aboreal] or 2000mm long for olives waters etc
If you check the website I think the dimensions for commercial operators will be there somewhere

The problem here is it will not be guidelines. It is proposed to be mandatory minimum cage sizes.

Gird

 

[Jay]

Any word on when its going into place? Or how long we have to comply before fines/confiscations are made?

 

[craig23]

Laws like this are only enforced to protect mistreated animals
We have all seen or heard of large snakes in small enclosures or click clacks etc

It is about time private keepers had to assume some responsibility for their pets
If the guidelines follow the same guidelines used for commercial operators it is roughly as follows
2metre snake enclosure minimum 1000mm x 500mm x 2000mm tall [if aboreal] or 2000mm long for olives waters etc
If you check the website I think the dimensions for commercial operators will be there somewhere

Yes, I totally agree that in some cases it is overkill, but I use Qlds exhibitors code for my snakes; even though I do not exhibit; and they seem quite happy with their habitats

If this stops some reptiles from having terrible conditions it will be well worth it

From what I have been told by people who have been apart of this, you yourself longte wont meet the requirements with your cage size... thus the reason for people being upset. Hope you have lots of money to spend on new enclosures

 

[The_Cake]

Can i get a refund on a 5 year license i just payed last month?

 

[Oldbeard]

Laws like this are only enforced to protect mistreated animals
We have all seen or heard of large snakes in small enclosures or click clacks etc

It is about time private keepers had to assume some responsibility for their pets
If the guidelines follow the same guidelines used for commercial operators it is roughly as follows
2metre snake enclosure minimum 1000mm x 500mm x 2000mm tall [if aboreal] or 2000mm long for olives waters etc
If you check the website I think the dimensions for commercial operators will be there somewhere

Yes, I totally agree that in some cases it is overkill, but I use Qlds exhibitors code for my snakes; even though I do not exhibit; and they seem quite happy with their habitats

If this stops some reptiles from having terrible conditions it will be well worth it

somebody shoot me now!!!!!!!!! Please!!!!!

 

[pinkmus]

We keep carpets singly in 1200x800x600mm enclosures yet these will fall well short of what they are proposing.

:shock: I hope they don't go ahead with it...How big would an enclosure have to be to house a pair of diamonds?

 

[redbellybite]

Alot of these standards are hogwash ...these rules and regulations are getting beyond a joke ..
I hope for the day we can act as one country and have one set of general rules that abide by all states and territories including Tassie ...would make it alot more simple to know the rules and regulations and be able to purchase all types of reps ...like crocs for us banana benders....

 

[DA_GRIZ]

with any luck these laws don't come into action but maybe if decc sees this thread they can let us know what is actually happening with it.

 

[links]

Can i get a refund on a 5 year license i just payed last month?

I think this will be the general consensus if these ridiculous laws are brought in.

 

[Jay]

As others have said , all that will result is practically obliterating the NSW based market and push the vast majority of people to go off licence.

 

[pythonmum]

Just got home after a conference and everything changes while I'm gone!!! (Glad about womas). Anyway, where are you getting info on minimum enclosure sizes? Current regulations for exhibited reptiles in NSW use these formulas:

• Lizard (L= total length of longest of 2 lizards displayed together) minimum floor area for 2 specimens = 2.5L x 2.5 L. Minimum height for terrestrial is the larger of either 2x head-body length or 40 cm. Minimum height for arboreal is the larger of 4x head-body length or 60 cm.
• Terrestrial snake (L is total length of snake). floor area greater than or equal to 0.3Lsquared, but no dimension less than 0.3L.
• Arboreal snake - same floor as terrestrial, but minimum of 0.5L for height of enclosure.

In practice, this means that a 2m python needs an enclosure at least 0.6m long x 0.6m wide x 1m tall. The height is going to be the biggest problem for most people. If DECC mandates different housing requirements than these, all businesses will have to change enclosures. I can't see that happening.

 

[Slytherin]

If the extreme cage sizes was inforced SA, I'd have to move into Snakey's enclosure and he would get my bedroom (He thinks its his anyway :lol. I've given him plenty of room and from what I've seen, he prefers things to not be too large (Enclosure 1mt tall by 80cm long by 60cm wide)

Why doesn't the Gov do something to catch REAL criminals instead.

 

[girdheinz]

Just got home after a conference and everything changes while I'm gone!!! (Glad about womas). Anyway, where are you getting info on minimum enclosure sizes? Current regulations for exhibited reptiles in NSW use these formulas:

• Lizard (L= total length of longest of 2 lizards displayed together) minimum floor area for 2 specimens = 2.5L x 2.5 L. Minimum height for terrestrial is the larger of either 2x head-body length or 40 cm. Minimum height for arboreal is the larger of 4x head-body length or 60 cm.
• Terrestrial snake (L is total length of snake). floor area greater than or equal to 0.3Lsquared, but no dimension less than 0.3L.
• Arboreal snake - same floor as terrestrial, but minimum of 0.5L for height of enclosure.

In practice, this means that a 2m python needs an enclosure at least 0.6m long x 0.6m wide x 1m tall. The height is going to be the biggest problem for most people. If DECC mandates different housing requirements than these, all businesses will have to change enclosures. I can't see that happening.

Exhibited animals don't come under DECC but under DPI. DPI also have a new draft for their act.

Gird